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Thread: FALUN GONG/Falun Dafa

  1. #16
    GLW Guest
    To the best of my knowledge, Heaven's Gate folks and those in Jonestown are happy as clams.

    Those with David Koresh are a little hot under the collar, but when the smoke clears, they are probably happy too.

    The Khmer Rouge was a nice organization following their leaders....the fields were nice.

  2. #17
    origenx Guest
    cagey vet - actually, he may be right about the aliens. But, that's another story...

    As far as levitating and other paranormal powers - I believe they may be possible but will really believe them when I see them. There was footage this Sunday night on TLC showing Lamas walking thru walls so who knows? So, I don't think this is necesarily proof for or against.

    As far as the integrity and validity of the Chinese gov's propaganda, you gotta be kidding me. They blow so much smoke out their *ss you'd think you're stuck in a cab with some practicing Rastafarians. Reminds me of the anti-LSD largely-BS "horror stories" you heard in the 60s. Even the recent self-burnings are highly suspicious of being faked. Like one guy's "burned face" looks suspiciously like the latex masks used in movie-making, where it's thicker and covers up the real hairline, creating a false one that goes straight up all around. Meanwhile, the gov has cruelly tortured countless and killed over a hundred non-resistant followers.

    I don't care if this guy's a flake, I think the gov's crackdown on it is horrendous. I think everyone has the right to religious freedom, especially if it's non-violent.

    Bottom line is, I want to hear the facts argued here, not baseless mudslinging. I want to hear specific facets of the teachings, exercises or Li Hongzhi debunked, or not. Again, anyone???

  3. #18
    Qiman Guest
    Orginex, I agree with you about the outright suppression of thoughts and ideas in China. I am very much a supporter of free speech and all the liberties we enjoy in the good ole US of A.

    I thought I was specific when I described the visual hallucinations this guy was reporting. I did sutdy the teaching from the website for a while. I stand by my first post.

  4. #19
    origenx Guest
    qiman - actually, I've heard the same advice to not be distracted by weird hallucinations or visualizations during meditation from various sources, not just FG. That was even supposedly one of Sakyamuni's "tests" for enlightenment per legend. So, I consider that pretty standard advice, if anything...

    And BTW, as far as levitation and "superpowers" - a certain HUGE mainstream "respected" religion claims its leader could walk on water, materialize things, change substances, heal and come back to life after death - yet no one uses that as proof that it's BS or a "cult." Can you spell D-O-U-B-L-E S-T-A-N-D-A-R-D ??

    [This message was edited by origenx on 02-19-01 at 11:27 AM.]

  5. #20
    Iron_Monkey Guest

    Word up brutha.....

    My thoughts exactly origenx. Until someone has PROOF, then let it alone....

    People think if it can't be explained or sounds impossible, then it is. I think science and spirituality will eventually prove eachother right...........

  6. #21
    Kung Lek Guest

    origenx, you can draw your own conclusions about Li Hongxi and his teachings at his website.
    The link is supplied in another post.

    Falun Gong/dafa is a "cult of personality" and not a religious cult. They are different.
    you speak of outrageous stories of "miracles and faith healings" in reference to the christian faith. The christian faith has many aspects.
    Some even recognize Jesus as just a man, but a man with a message of peace.
    The miracles can all be explained and have been by various sources.
    for instance "water into wine"- it is known that the same amphorae (bottles) were used over and over again sometimes over a period of years.
    This led to a residue buildup of crystallized wine in the amphorae. Jesus directs someone to fill it with water and swish it around.
    Wine is produced much in the same way as instant coffee.
    The zealots proclaim this a miracle. Jesus never claimed a miracle had occured.

    The fishes and loaves story has an equally intersting twist.
    Everybody gathers (about 5000). 5000 people gathering with no food at all? didn't happen.
    the demonstartion by Jesus and his followers was a lesson in giving.
    IE: Give away everything you have and it will be returned in two fold.
    If I hand over all my fish to the next guy, somebody down the line is gonna give me theirs and so on until all the food that was present at the sermon on the mount was distributed and there was some leftover in the end. The only miracle there was that people gave up their own possessions and learned that they really gave up nothing but instead made gains in more areas than food.

    Lazarus was a result of knowledge. He may not have even been dead at all. Jesus was likely educated in some medicinal practices and either brought lazarus out of a coma, or any number of other techniques associated with medicinal practices at the time (which were no less or no more primitive than herbalism and manipulative therapy or Chi manipulation or acupressure.puncture of today).

    Li Hongxi in his writings sets himself apart from the rest of humanity and all his contemporaries. He claims that virtually all of the masters of Chi Kung don't really understand Chi Kung and that only if you follow his way will you see what "real" chi kung and it's benefits are.

    Li Hongxi is the leader of a cult of personality that does little more than borrow from chi kung arts that have existed for many years before he was a gleem in his dads eye.

    Li hongxi has told people to not go for treatment of acute symptoms and those people have died because of their faith in Li.

    Li hongxi capatalizes on those who are too weak to make their own destiny manifest.
    He is clever and recognizes most readily human weakness.

    Yes the PRC is likely going overboard in their protestations about Li and his group, and they do have a clear track record of obfuscation and deception and accordingly are not trusted by the western public.

    But what of western propaganda? What of the still prominent "communist scare" in the western world.

    Li hongxi is no different than the rest of us, he is a human who has all the problems and joys of being human.
    to his followers he is a demi urge and sage of sorts.

    Li is not the only one who practices these deceptions.

    The Chinese government does not crack down anymore on people doing tajiquan in the park or Chi Kung for that matter. It is the communist party line to not allow groups that are considered dissident to flourish.

    Li hongxi actively recruits government people in all levels where possible.
    He is seeking internal political power and indeed he has a political agenda.

    I do not agree with the tenets and precepts of communism at all in any way. it is a pile of marxist utopian garbage in my not so humble opinion.

    Nor do I agree with anything about falun gong practices with the singular exception that Chi Kung practice is good for you and it is good for anybody of any age.

    Be careful, that's all.


    Kung Lek

    [This message was edited by Kung Lek on 08-19-01 at 11:58 AM.]

  7. #22
    Qiman Guest

    Have you heard this one.

    Li also states that Monks or Nuns that cultivate in a specific way. When dead and creamated will leave a mass of material from a different dimension. It cannot be identifed by modern science. Sounds delusional to me.

  8. #23
    brucelee2 Guest
    Actually, I have read in several books of high level masters of chiqong/taoism, when cremated, leaving a number of diamond-like residues. I think Magus of Java was one of these books. Bones of the Master may have been another.

  9. #24
    Kung Lek Guest
    Yes, the claims of interdimensional materials and residues that are unidentifiable by science...
    I have "heard" these claims too.
    I don't think anyone actually ever had "science" take a look at these claims and I think that no-one ever will. It will immediately de-mystify everything.

    It is these claims that drift from the truth of Chi Kung practice that tick me off.

    Chi kung is a natural and very real thing that affects and effects each practitioner in a positive way.
    It does not need to be mystified, it does not need to be wrapped in mystery.Accept it or don't but don't try and make a silk purse from a sows ear.

    many do this with all sorts of arts.
    Kung Fu is overmystified as are many martial arts.
    It's just knowledge to be gained and applied, it is not some big-quasi religious secret.

    corruption of intent, spirit and thought is what leads to these behaviours in so called "masters".

    I have always been of the opinion that the more trappings and outward expressions you surround yourself with, the less true skill you have.
    This I have found to be a general truism.


    Kung Lek

  10. #25
    origenx Guest
    qiman - I don't know about "other-dimensional," but it is stnadard Buddhist belief that enlightened masters, when cremated, will leave "suli" - small whitish pebbles. Like, supposedly, when Sakyamuni was cremated, he left 84,000 suli and India gave china 19 of them. Of those 19, supposedly the only real one located today is in Famen Temple in Xian. I saw it, as well as a finger bone also purported to be from Buddha. Anyways, the "suli" looks like a tiny whitish pebble about the size of half a grain of rice.

    Kung Lek - Intersting spin on Jesus' "miracles." I never heard those before - where'd you read that?

    Ok points about Li Hongzhi, but I still haven't heard anything really convincing that puts a nail in his coffin. I wanna hear that he's embezzling all this money to buy a fleet of Benz's, or that he lied about his past, or specific points in his teaching that are wrong. I still haven't heard anything solid as such... ?

  11. #26
    Qiman Guest

    Ok I recant

    Maybe delusions are to strong of a word, how about myth. I have never heard these stories before. Most of the books I have are on martial Qigong and only touch on the mystical. I like the fact that many of us have disagreed and no one has started name calling. Must be all that internal work! I may not can fly but it sure makes me calmer.

    Origenx, I have not heard of the suli legend. Is it written about in the Dhammapada? If so were?
    I am not challenging you, just want to read about it. :)

  12. #27
    GLW Guest
    Coffin nails....not bloody likely.

    The BEST con men apply just enough truth and appear honest enough to be worthy of the benefit of the doubt.

    From an old Thief of Bagdad movie : "Trust in Allah,.....but tie up your camel"

    From P.T.Barnum paraphrased, When you are offered something for nothing, you usually get nothing for something....

  13. #28
    magicfist Guest
    falun gong is good
    plain and simple

  14. #29
    origenx Guest
    Qiman - I didn't read about "suli's." I don't even know if they're in Buddhist texts. I just learned about them when touring various temples in China. If you talk to someone who's travelled somewhat in China or lived there, they may have heard about it. Ask around...and let me know what you hear?

  15. #30
    ddh Guest

    pearls of enlightenment

    My teacher said that when his Buddhist teacher (a monk) died and was cremated, he left pearl like substances that came from his spine. These indicated that the internal fire from many years of meditation had hardened certain areas along the spine and were indicative of his teachers level of spiritual attainment.

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