FALUN GONG/Falun Dafa

[David Jamieson]

is the problem the supply? or the demand?

[Juna]

Organ sales 'thriving' in China

Chinese officials say the prisoners volunteer to donate their organs
The sale of organs taken from executed prisoners appears to be thriving in China, an undercover investigation by the BBC has found.
Organs from death row inmates are sold to foreigners who need transplants.

One hospital said it could provide a liver at a cost of £50,000 ($94,400), with the chief surgeon confirming an executed prisoner could be the donor.

China's health ministry did not deny the practice, but said it was reviewing the system and regulations.

'Present to society'

The BBC's Rupert Wingfield-Hayes visited No 1 Central Hospital in Tianjin, ostensibly seeking a liver for his sick father.

Officials there told him that a matching liver could be available in three weeks.

One official said that the prisoners volunteered to give their organs as a "present to society".

It is a complete fabrication... to say that China forcibly takes organs from the people given the death penalty for the purpose of transplanting them

Qin Gang
Foreign ministry spokesman
28 March 2006


Send us your views

He said there was currently an organ surplus because of an increase in executions ahead of the 1 October National Day.

China executes more prisoners than any other country in the world. In 2005, at least 1,770 people were executed, although true figures were believed to be much higher, a report by human rights group Amnesty International said.

In March, China's foreign ministry admitted that organs from prisoners were used, but said that it was only in "a very few cases".

Spokesman Qin Gang said that the organs were not taken forcibly, but only with the express permission of the convict.

But whether prisoners really are free to make up their own minds on organ donation just before they are executed is not at all clear, our correspondent says.

In April 2006, top British transplant surgeons condemned the practice as unacceptable and a breach of human rights.

But the No 1 Central Hospital carried out 600 liver transplants last year, our correspondent says, and the organ transplant industry has become big business.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/5386720.stm

[golden arhat]

i have practiced falun gong and it was quite a good experience in fact it was my first experience with chi
i do ba duan jin excercises and feel very similar why arent chi gung ppl being persecuted? there must be a reason seeing as chi gung is quite a peaceful and calming practice

[David Jamieson]

regular qigong practitioners aren't persecuted because they aren't fronting a political agenda such as fd/fg does.

fd/fg tells you they are about the qigongs, but in reality, they are a cult that uses a faux politicak agenda read: blame prc for everything wrong in the world and spread this story in alien cultures to gain sympathy for their cause (whatever that might be)

being part of a borg like collective is not my bag and fg/fd has never clearly delineated what their purpose or goal is. They iterate and reiterate "falun gong is good" it's even on their signs everywhere. People in yellow jackets who won't or can't answer important questions about their organization and resort back to silence, dissing the prc and dodging the questions regarding Li Hongxi, the questionable practice of refusing medical attention leading to the deaths of their own followers, the draining of resources from their members to fund the coffers of those higher ups in their organization and so on.

classic cult stuff. and they just love it when some doe eyed westerner jumps on board the sympathy train with them and without any evidence whatsoever will tow the line.

ah well, you can't legislate against stupidity I guess.

[Juna]

regular qigong practitioners aren't persecuted because they aren't fronting a political agenda such as fd/fg does.

.

Not true

Reports of Sale of Executed Falun Gong Prisoners' Organs in China Called 'Shocking'
By Melinda Smith
Washington, DC
03 October 2006

watch Organ Harvest report / Real broadband - download video clip
watch Organ Harvest report / Real broadband video clip
watch Organ Harvest report / Real dialup - download video clip
watch Organ Harvest report / Real dialup video clip

The Chinese government has been accused of harvesting organs from executed Falun Gong prisoners for sale to wealthy patients in need. The chairman of a U.S. House of Representatives subcommittee called the issue "so shocking it represents a new form of evil." VOA's Carol Pearson narrates.

Falun Gong, protestor
Falun Gong protestor being arrested
These were Falun Gong protesters in Macau, China in the year 2000. News reports say the participants were later released. If true, these followers of the Chinese spiritual exercise were fortunate. Others were not.

While Falun Gong has attracted millions of followers, its supporters say thousands have been jailed and hundreds killed. How they were killed–and for what purpose—were troubling questions raised during a Congressional subcommittee hearing in Washington, D.C.

The subject was a report from human rights activists who say the Chinese government is supporting the sale of organs from Falun Gong prisoners who have been executed.

David Kilgour
David Kilgour
David Kilgour, a former Canadian cabinet minister, was among those who testified. "The government of China and its hospitals, detention centers and other agencies in numerous parts of the country, has over the past half decade put to death a large, but unknown number of Falun gong prisoners of conscience,” he said. “Most of the victims were convicted of nothing. They were murdered by medical professions for their vital organs. These organs were, virtually, simultaneously seized for sale at high prices, often to foreigners."

The study says 85 percent of organ transplants conducted in the hospitals in the Tianjin region were done on foreigners, and possibly wealthy foreigners. A website for the China International Organ Transplant Center lists a kidney transplant as costing $65,000 U.S., a lung transplant, $150,000 to $170,000, a heart transplant, in the range of $130,000 to $160,000 U.S.

The report indicates at least 60,000 transplants were done in China from 2000 to 2005. Of that number, 18,000 were from non-prison sources. The rest were unexplained. Meanwhile, the Chinese news media reported 1,000 executions in 2002. The human rights organization Amnesty International says the number of executions may be as high as 15,000.

Erping Zhang, Falun Gong spokesman
Erping Zhang, Falun Gong spokesman
The Chinese government outlawed Falun Gong in 1999. Falun Gong spokesman Erping Zhang insists the group has no political agenda and wants nothing more than to practice its beliefs peacefully. "Under these circumstances, we have been left with no choice but to speak out. Our goal has been simple and singular: to let our people, let other people hear our side of the story. And to expose those violating our rights and to, by doing so, end the genocide we face."

The Chinese say the report is groundless and based on false allegations. After the study was released in July of 2006, China enacted legislation banning sales of human organs and requiring written permission from donors. Yet the witnesses at the Congressional hearing were skeptical that the practice has stopped, and called for continued pressure on the Chinese government to end the practice of trafficking in human organs.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2006-10-03-voa51.cfm

[golden arhat]

dj is an excellent poster i seriously doubt he would lie to us

[David Jamieson]

Juna-

you cheery picked that interview with Kilgour.

for anyone interested in reading in and seeing how flimsy mr kilgours "evidence" is and just how not informed he is, give it a read here:

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/conte...6/s1715849.htm

you can also make note of how kilgour didn't actually go anywhere or talk to anyone. my personal opinion is that his report is shoddy and not really a believable artifact.

having said that, Juna, no one is saying the PRC government is not party to questionable practices especially by western standards. I personally believe they do things that would be deemed criminal and reprhensible here in teh west, but then again, what do I know? I'm not there and everything I see or hear about China is fed to me through western media, which is about as trustworthy as a paedophile in a daycare at this point in time, so it has to be taken in with a lot of thought and consideration.

Mr. Kilgour's report is still highly debatable in regards to accuracy and truth. he hasn't actually spoken to any officials, doesn't speak any chinese at all, relies on interpreters who, well what do you know are from teh fd/fg organization and as well are the ones who are placing the calls to the people in china to make confirmations on their allegations.

One of the interesting points in the article is regarding the conversations by phone. that being, why would all these high up government officials and surgeons be spilling what is tantamount to state secrets if indeed the prc is harvesting organs from non donators?

In short, it's shady and wouldn't appear to be able to stand up in a court of law. as well, speaking of law, you still haven't answered my question about the trumped up suit on the chinese official in toronto and how that is working out, you still fail to answer questions asked here in this thread about the organization you are fronting for and you still have basically nothing to say about any of the criticisms that have been given to you here and have yet to successfully rebut any of them.

so? any more copy and paste jobs for us or are you gonna make a point here?

[Juna]

dj is an excellent poster i seriously doubt he would lie to us

He has been cheated by ccp's lies, so he is now seriously cheating you by repeating ccp's lies.
But the problem is he might think he is right, that is the terrible effect of ccp's brainwashing!

[Juna]

Juna-

you still haven't answered my question about the trumped up suit on the chinese official in toronto and how that is working out, ?

If you really are interested in the lawsuit, you can surf yourself on the Internet,

as I know the Chinese official did not pay the money he was required by the court and fled back to China, and ended his diplomatic career shamefully.

[bodhitree]

I woke up this morning and just thought....



I love the Chinese government!

[bodhitree]

In the upcoming midterm elections I will vote for who most supports CCP policies! I wish the CCP had some candidates.

[golden arhat]

your going to vote republican ? lol

[David Jamieson]

juna-

good cannot exist without evil.
standard cartesian dualism. yin/yang, get with the program etc etc

[bodhitree]

Evil shall be punished by heavan as falun gong will be punished by?

a. Big Pun
b. Chinese Government
c. SS officers
d. School principal




Thats right, the correct answer is 'b'

[David Jamieson]

Evil will be punished.
as a person, supporting evil will be punished by heaven.

and what is heaven but a concept?

you would rather turn this to people who aren't buying what you're selling as evil?
that goes over like lead balloons, just so you know. like lying, fabricating stories and the rest.

your organization has a leader who thinks he is christ. He has also taken a lot of money and set himself up living quite well in a manhattan pad and has left those who suffer for him behind.
This is not evil?

Now, are you gonna answer the questions in this thread in your own words or someone elses? You probably need to be deprogrammed.