Er Lu Mai Fu

[crazymaddrunk]

anyone ever heard of this form? I met a guy at the park that was practicing it, he wasn't Chinese, but a Jamaican :-) He said he learned it years ago, and it's the only form he does every day...

any history on this form? anyone still do it, and what style?

lol it looked very "kung fu-y" for a lack of a better term (as in it looked like kung fu would think it would look :-)

[Crimson Phoenix]

I train that form...I like it a lot...you can find it in the Nanjing Longfist curriculum.
YJM told me that it seems Han Ching Tang designed it, supposedly based on some styles trained in Shandong province (like MaiFu quan, I'd guess). He supposedly did it because the old Er Lu Mai Fu was known to have existed but couldn't be found...
I don't know how true is that explanation, but it's the only one I heard...

[MasterKiller]

Yi Lu Mai Fu and Er Lu Mai Fu (First Way of Ambush and Second Way of Ambush) are consumate Long-Fist forms.

Er Lu Mai Fu is probably the most widely practiced of the two sets.

[Robert Young]

Mai Fu Chuan has serveral routines. Most Mai Fu Chuan came from Han Ching Tang line today. Grand master Han did not designed it, he learned it when he was young in Sang Dong before he went to Nanjing Guo Shu Guan. Most people started from Er Lu Mai Fu, then Yi Lu Mai Fu. We also have Wu Lu Mai Fu (Ambush fifth routine). All Mai Fu Chuan are Long Fist forms.
The reason most people started Er Lu Mai Fu is because the form is easier comparing to other Long Fist forms (Yi Lu Mai Fu has more jumping and kicking). Also, Er Lu Mai Fu was very well desinged and very good for speed training. It is very representative of Long Fist style.

[MasterKiller]

Robert,
Do you know if there are 3rd and 4th Ambush routines, or do you suppose they have been lost?

[Robert Young]

> Do you know if there are 3rd and 4th Ambush routines, or do
> you suppose they have been lost?

I maybe wrong, but I remember that there are six Mai Fu Chuan routines. As far as I know, my teacher is the only one who taught fifth routine Mai Fu in Taiwan. I believe the rest of the routines are gone unless someone from another lineage has learned them.
On the other hand, my experience has told me the first and the second routines are much well organized and have a unique trait which is very Long Fist like. If I have to choose only two out of three routines we have to teach or practice, I would choose the first and the second routines.

[Crimson Phoenix]

Funny, it seems the Yi Lu and Er Lu I learnt roughly have the same amount of kicking (too late to count them, but it seems it's equal)...or even jumping. Yi Lu does have a finishing tornado kick that is not found in Er Lu though...

[crazymaddrunk]

thanks for the info, it was a really "cool" looking form...

as always, thanks MK for your insights, you seem pretty knowledgeable

[MasterKiller]

Compared to some of these guys, my knowledge is miniscule. It amazes me how much there is to learn and how much some people know.

[Robert Young]

> Funny, it seems the Yi Lu and Er Lu I learnt roughly have the
> same amount of kicking (too late to count them, but it seems
> it's equal)...or even jumping. Yi Lu does have a finishing
> tornado kick that is not found in Er Lu though...

Then, I think you really need to look hard of what Yi Lu provides.
There are three places that have jumpings that Er Lu doesn't have. First, after first Hsing Bu and rooster stance, the next move is a jump and then moves to a half horse stance. Next, from the first jump about three moves later, there is a rooster stance with two fists open to both sides. Then, from the rooster stance, you need to jump to the left and hit with your two palms to both sides again with a horse stance. Third, after the second Hsing Bu and rooster stance, there is another jump and then a seated stance.
Those jumps should be done as high and far as possible. That's how you can practice leaping or jumping forward with moves.

The one more kick is tornado kick like you mentioned.

With those jumps, the flavor or the trait of the form changes quite a lot from Er Lu Mai Fu.

There is reasons for grand teacher Han to choose those two forms as core materials. Each Mai Fu has it own strength or specialty. And both forms were designed in such a way that you can practice as powerful and as fast as you can.
Hope this help.

[Crimson Phoenix]

I learnt the yi lu and er lu from YJM, exactly like performed in the video he sells about them (well, huh, with one or two little twists he doesn't show eheheh). Really, I assure you, except for the evade by jumping back after the kick (two palms going sideways, ma bu) and the jump with hammer hand right before this very sequence, I do not see that much more jumps in yi lu compared to er lu. They both have the double ti tui/nei bai tui jump kick, and indeed yi lu has the tornado and the first ti tui after single leg stance in the beginning (the one in which your other leg rests in the crest of your knee). Also the ding tui you perform on your left after the double punch to each sides, followed by the liu tui. But er lu has a jump right after the "dagger throwing", ending in a knife hand to the throat, that yi lu doesn't have. And er lu has two side cut kicks that yi lu does not have, not to mention the knee-level nei bai tui after you turn from doing your clandestines steps...

maybe we learnt slightly diverging versions? Because frankly, if indeed qualitatively the two forms feel really different, I do not feel that quantitatively one is richer in kicks or jumps compared to the other. I agree though that somehow yi lu feels more aerial, even if in the forms I learnt it is not due, I repeat, to an overwhelming difference of the number of jumps and kicks involved, but rather to the way they are performed.

[Robert Young]

I mistakenly posted this reply to a different thread. So I reply again.

I have no intention to make this forum become a Long Fist discussion. But, I found that people have different expectation or perspective of what they learn even they learn the same thing. Over the years, I have noticed how much difference the interpretations of a form can make from my younger brothers who I have trained with the same explanations and same method of training. I believe this is another case of different interpretation of a form by two different source. So, I will say about my side of story and you can judge yourself.

> maybe we learnt slightly diverging versions? Because frankly, if
> indeed qualitatively the two forms feel really different, I do not
> feel that quantitatively one is richer in kicks or jumps compared
> to the other.
I went to books store last night and checked his book on Long Fist. I found out he has added a kick after the second Hsing Bu and rooster stance. I believe that was something he added himself which I don't think that is a good move. If he did not add that move then his teacher is the one to blame. But, I guess you stuck with it. That kick will slow the flow of the sequence. There should be a two jumps on the left foot and then go to seated stance. Actually, the first sequence also has a two jumps on the left foot and then go to half horse with right hammer fist.
It is the flow of the sequences that I want to emphasize.

> I agree though that somehow yi lu feels more aerial, even if in
> the forms I learnt it is not due, I repeat, to an overwhelming
> difference of the number of jumps and kicks involved, but rather
> to the way they are performed.
The major difference between Er Lu and Yi Lu is the moves after Hsing Bu. First, they all followed by rooster stance and then jump which Those are the moves make you feel the form aerial.

To me, a form with three long jumps is a lot. Especially, when you try to jump as far as you can in the practice.

I don't think there is an "overwhelming" difference either. That was not what I said. How much difference do you think the forms from the same style will make? But, the aerial feeling you have is the sign that you want to focus. Because that is what Yi Lu Mai Fu can give you that Er Lu can not. It will make you feel more different when you practice them fast.

If two forms give you pretty much the same feeling, then you don't need two forms, one is enough. Like I said, Grand teacher Han choose those two forms as core materials with good reasons.

Cheers,