Sparred a guy at work today

[Ryu]

You know what's funny? A lot of my sparring matches (and also real fights) happened at various jobs.

There was the sparring match with a "muay thai" boxer who said I couldn't take him down.....

(I shot in on him and got hold of a single leg...he tried to jump up and knee me in the head..... He fell straight down into the cement floor of the back room and gave up as soon as I got side control....) This guy's punch nicked my ear as I shot in though....(phew).....he did have lots of power.

Got into a real fight at that same job (what was wrong with that place?? ) Some guy knew I had some grappling experience and went on and on about how he defeated all these wrestlers in high school, etc. Then asked me to try and take him down....
I didn't want to, but he kept asking and so I finally did....and took him down.
Then he said "well let me try this again..."
So I shot in again.....and took him down again.

Then he decided to do it full out sparring because it was the only way for his "move" to work.....

So I took him down a third time. This time, on the ground, he goes crazy, and starts trying to rip my head off.... I get ****ed, ankle pick him onto his back, mount him, and threaten a beating with a raised fist.......he stopped before I had to do anything else.


Then when I worked as a security guard, there was that "hazing" incident against two guys......
That fight was actually kind of scary. I've told that one on here before though.

Work........ not the safest place it seems.

Ryu

[Royal Dragon]

LOL @ Ryu!! Yeah, bizzaro things happen at work!!

[brassmonkey]

I have a new coworker with the name Chao. I immediately thought of you Royal Dragon. He claims to have bloodline from the royal family but doesnt know any martial arts except tae kwon do but I suspect he's lying.

[Royal Dragon]

LOL!!!

You know, I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Emperor Chao from 960 AD had ALOT of kids from his concubines, so ultimately, it is possible. Only a direct descendant would have THE family art. Even then, after 1000 years, given and average of 2.5 kids a generation, the family line must be huge by now.

[apoweyn]

Maybe it's just me being cynical. But this story isn't really about how you "kicked arse wrong." That sounds like false humility to me, when what you really wanted to say was that you stopped some guy with one knee shot to the ribs.


Stuart B.

[Royal Dragon]

No, not really. Anyone could do that. It was just a weird experiance I was relateing to the board, that's all. I could just as well have been talking about how I failed to do what I wanted, and just got lucky. Maybe I was subconciously trying to say I suck becuse I couldn't pull off a simple move, and instead just went all willy nilly and did whatever.

Or maybe, just maybe after all the hell and anguish I have gone through with my back, I was just happy that finnaly I was strong enough to mix it up a bit with someone, and didn't do all that bad inspite of myself.

[apoweyn]

Royal Dragon,

Or maybe, just maybe after all the hell and anguish I have gone through with my back, I was just happy that finnaly I was strong enough to mix it up a bit with someone, and didn't do all that bad inspite of myself.

I think that's a perfectly valid reason to celebrate. And to want to talk about it.

I don't think the issue was ever why you couldn't pull off this simple move. The issue was your training. The kick (or knee as it turns out) was more ingrained than the retreating palm. Not a failing on your part. Just an indication that you've used the kicking more in sparring, drilling, etc. So that when it was go time, that was more readily accessible to you.


Stuart B.

[No_Know]

Survival systems: Defcon4-..........He's charging.
RoyalDragon's concious thought-.I'l try that Tai tzu technique.
Survival systems: Defcon3-..........He's charging!
RoyalDragon's concious thought-.Um, that goes something like.?. hmm?
Survival systems: Defcon2- ..........I'm in no mood to need rebooting.

Kick. Survival systems: Defcon1--falty distance intelligence, Convert coNVERT CONVERT...Knee.

When you did practice in the air you did not Feel the urgency of Needing to use the technique. You likely were technical logical, when I do this it has this effect...cool but not concept of putting You in the application--that in the air or in the situation should good portionly be treated without difference. Practice/real=same high intensity/Intent.

You disliked not getting to tryout your technique but because you didn't know it good enough--lacksidasical training, you didn't execute it before you were in great jeopardy. If you knew it better and had practiced with intent siding on This is needed/real/I'm hitting someone+ you might have at least gotten the technique off even if it failed (you or him).

[No_Know]

It worked, perhaps, but not necessarily as you reasoned.

Stepping back and punching forward seems to have something like a force dampening effect. However, It gives Great stability to your straight arm anchored in the centrifugal force like a gyroscope has resistance to being moved as quick as you like fast.

Person was comming toward you then took your volunteered space. Thing is, while you are moving out you are sending forward a fist or palm but it is counterbalance to your step-like a tightrope walker's balance pole, the ends are heavy, hard to move--stablizing-ish.

It's like running in the lumberyard. Turning a corner chest/ midsection into the small side of a stuck-out two foot portion of a ten foot two-by-four near the middle of a neatly stacked six foot high twenty foot long pile/gathering of ten foot long two-by-fours.

"Are you gonna be able to get any serious power from palming while stepping backwards?"

Large rotation--down, back, up, over, forward-down while sinking with rear stepping gives centrifugal force plus the sinking weight of the body(using your boy weight to augment force)~ as the arm moves with it. Palm heel shot or bottom of the fist.

Put a couch pillow in a plastic grocery bag. Holding through the handles, push the bag at a person/have them push it at you. See what is thought of that-Powerwise

Holding through the handles, let the person swing the bag counterclockwise (right hand; clockwise, left hand), At you (or you at them). Largest rotation at elbow or shoulder. See what is thought of that-Powerwise

Holding through the handles, let the person swing the bag counterclockwise (right hand; clockwise, left hand), At you (or you at them), while sinking-down (arm With the body). See What you or or and they think of that-Powerwise.

Seems like a overhead move. But the swing momentum borrowing the body weight of sinking might be piggy-backed with a thrust or push brought from behind.

However much power that might be.

Elbow rotation is faster than shoulder rotation. Wrist rotation is faster than elbow rotation.

Speed (velocity can add to force). There are at least centrifugal force and mechanicalforce at play here. Like attributes in a role-playing game, where you allocate means less to allocate elsewhere. Comprehend an appropriate balance.

Perhaps somesuch some might say.

I No_Know

[No_Know]

"I'm not sure I follow..... how do you "kick ass" wrong?

You either kick it or you don't......don't you?

Explain what you mean.

Ryu"

"As far as the topic goes, I'm with ryu - you can't really kick someone's arse wrong. Also, there wasn't really an arse kicking. You merely got the jump on him in a short exchange.

As for not being able to do the technique that you wanted to do, we discuss that all the time on this forum - when it comes down to it, you will use the technique that your body is most accustomed to using, which in this case was not your tai tzu."-SevenStar

Different from trying to pull-off a technique and not pulling-it-off, this might count.

I use my weakest stuff when I spar~. Things on which I had theories and the such. If I was looking to score with Crane moves But find I apply them and they Don't work and start to get win on, I would conciously down-shift until I get to the stuff that seem always efficient. It's not enough to win. I Need to win standing on one leg or just using one arm. Or using only kicks or from a horseriding stance. And if I win but not how I came-into it to, it might be frustrating, demoralizing, bothersome...irk my Arrogance.

[Royal Dragon]

Survival systems: Defcon4-..........He's charging.
RoyalDragon's concious thought-.I'l try that Tai tzu technique.
Survival systems: Defcon3-..........He's charging!
RoyalDragon's concious thought-.Um, that goes something like.?. hmm?
Survival systems: Defcon2- ..........I'm in no mood to need rebooting.

Kick. Survival systems: Defcon1--falty distance intelligence, Convert coNVERT CONVERT...Knee.


Reply]
Yeah, this is pretty much what happened, Only I didn't stumble on the Tai Tzu technique, it played out in my head just as it should have, propper timming for the situation and everything. My body on the other hand said "Fu(k This untested sh!t, were doing something that's proven, and that's that!"

When you did practice in the air you did not Feel the urgency of Needing to use the technique. You likely were technical logical, when I do this it has this effect...cool but not concept of putting You in the application--that in the air or in the situation should good portionly be treated without difference. Practice/real=same high intensity/Intent.

Reply]
Well said, and probably true for me. Alot of this was due to the fact that I intentionnaly have been greatly holding back the last few years wile I healed up. I really don't have to do that as much as I used to, but it's sort of become habit. Now, I just need to make sure I maintain good recovery times more so than keeping the intesity levels down. So basically, most of my Tai Tzu may have been "Played with" in sporatic and occasional two man drills, but it's not really "Fight Tested". So when I was under the gun, my reptillian level brain went with the proven technology, the old "Pre Tai Tzu" skills I learned from my short time at Master Tsai's and Maser Abbate's schools, and perfected when I was sparring alot in small priviate groups during the mid 90's.

Really, only designing myself a consistant regiment of progressive prearranged twoman drills all the way through to full resisting free sparring, will I be able to make the Tai Tzu skills actually work in a fight or sparing situation. In the pinch, I'm STILL, after all this time, going to fall back on the same few things I have allways found success with.


You disliked not getting to tryout your technique but because you didn't know it good enough--lacksidasical training, you didn't execute it before you were in great jeopardy. If you knew it better and had practiced with intent siding on This is needed/real/I'm hitting someone+ you might have at least gotten the technique off even if it failed (you or him).

Reply]
Not really Lacksidasial training, more like intentionally taking it easy because I was hurt. I over did it, and tried to get back in the game way too early before, and it turned into a complete disaster. After that, I decided to not mix it up untill I met certain thresholds. So far, I'm a bit more than half way there, and slowly but steadily improving every day. I'm actually getting close to looking into schools so I can find people to work with again. I don't even care what style it is, so long as it's Good Chinese. Unfortunetly, there does not seem to be much Kung Fu in the Chicago's southwest suburbs. Most of the good stuff is in the city from what I can see.

The plan is to continue progressing in my personal system for maybe 9 more months, to a year. In the mean time, I'm probably going to drop the Taiji classes I'm teaching now so I have more time for my personal training. In 18 months, I want to be traiing on my own 3 times a week for 3 hours, and doing 2 days of two man work somewhere with a Chinese Long Fist sysetm, or possibly with someone who has an internal background (Thinking Hsing I or Bagua maybe). I will be keeping the Tai Tzu as my own personal project, using the forms and Qi Gong for the conditioning, and it's internal for body mechaincs drills. I'll worry about deciphering the applications of it when I have my game back.


No_Know,
I know what you mean by working your weakest stuff. It's how we all progress. BUT, there is also alot to be said for working your strengths, especially if you want to get your fight ability up quick, or in my case, restore it. I'm going to do a little bit of both Me think's.

[jon]

I used to spar a lot with a guy at my old work.

There is also a huge difference in how he approched me about working out together compared to the majority of people who find out i do ma and then try to 'test' me.

Im usualy quite happy to show people what i do and by and large im actualy quite happy for people to ask me the 'what do you do if' question as more often than not its actualy an honest question and not loaded in the least.

Having said that ive certainly had both ends of the stick, i had a guy who after finding out i did MA offered a little exchange to which i accepted. He then started throwing punches as hard as he could in an obvious attempt to actualy try and get one over me, i ended up hitting him in the eye out of reflex and it was not exactly a happy moment for either of us although we did end being friends.


The guy who i used to work a lot with used to do event security and also used to box and wrestle. He had a *lot* of weight on me as he was a bit past his prime and im fairly lean. Still his method of a 'challenge' was compleately humble and honest. He simply said he was interested in having a work out becouse it had been a while and wanted to know if i was up for a bit of contact sparring. He then surgested we have a muck around in one of the back rooms when we where on our lunch break.
We both had a great time and i really learnt a *lot* from this guy and both had a lot of fun doing it.
We ended up both working out quite a bit together and even went to far to as teach each other little bits and pieces.

Still the main point was one of the guys wanted to prove he was a badass. The other was interested in simply learning more.
BIG difference in my book.

[Royal Dragon]

I've delt with the "try and prove he's a bad ass" types at work too. last year I had one of those. The guy literally jumped my from behind a pallet loaded full with Fire Place burners. I was going to lunch, and had my Lunch in one hand, and a pair of gloves in the other. Fought him one handed, and still won. He seemed like a Kick Boxer with lots of good looking combos.

In that case, I beat him with a mix of stuff from the 32 move Tai Tzu form, and a few tricks I got from a LHBF freind of mine. In all honesty though, he really wasn't all that good. However, he had the jump on me, and lots of real agression. The whole thing was really bizzar, like he was trying to jokey for position as the top Dog in the shop or something. I helped build that company, even if he beat me he wouldn't have got it anyway. I don't know what the guy was thinking. I had him fired for that one.

[No_Know]

I'm hearing two cases of scared.

-scared to try and fail during an attack.
-scared to get hurt again/worsen your hurt/be crippled by your actions.

I read that you have Scared. Fear can be a help. But only so far. Do whatever. But be aware.

For me, as they are strengths requireing maintanance to a point, I would rather develop to approach an even ness in the things I think matter at that place in my life. Then a little developing of all of it. Or taking advantage to Really up a skill of it's a significant lift. Basically Whatever whatever. Hopefully I do not do anything. Hopefully I do not Know anything. Be well.