Sparred a guy at work today

[Royal Dragon]

Starchaser107,
i think he meant his technique was sloppy. thats what I got from it.

Reply]
No, it wasn' t that (Although I have an issue there as well), what happened is we faced off,and I circled a bit waiting to see what he was going to do. Once I felt him out, I pretty much knew how to handle him, but when he charged in to close the gap, instead of stepping back palming him in the forehead wile deflecting his arm with my other arm, I stepped back with the opposite leg, lifted my right and went for a round kick. He closed the gap faster than I expected, so I turned it into a knee to the lower ribs, jammed him, and hit him a bit harder than I wanted to. That was pretty much he extent of it (after all, we were suposed to be working)

Given the situation, what I wanted to do would have worked just fine, but wile I was thinking about doing it, my body just did something else instead. So Yeah, I won that round, but some sort of instinct took over and did the job it's own way, and what I wanted to do, got set aside. I actual pictured the move I wanted to do, and simutanioulsy thought "Why am I kicking him?" It was kind of weird.

The perticular way I round Kicked, and coverted to a knee jam is something I used to do with alot of sucsess back in the days when I actually mixed it up alot with people, the new, technique I "Tried" to use is something out of one of the Tai Tzu sets that I have only done pre arranged drills with. I really haven't done any type of free sparring since about 6 months before my back injury, till very reacently really. So we are looking at best 2-1/2 years ago, maybe longer. Back then, I was a pretty good kicker. But now, I want to stay away from that, and use a more hand based methodology because of the way kicks tourque the lower back. Yet, there I was, under the gun, actually TRYING to do something different, and my old patterns just emerged on their own. I guess you really do fight like you train.

[Royal Dragon]

KC Elbows,
Try taping sparring sessions for a while and seeing where you get sloppy, I suppose. It's good to do anyway, if you've got the extra person.

Reply]
I'm not really free sparring yet, but I'm defenetly doing some two man prearranged stuff again, mostly the short style Southern Tai Tzu with a freind of mine (although I don't practice the forms form the system anymore, I only do the Long fist stuff now). However, when I do get there I think taping the session is a great idea. I know alot of professional athletes do this with great sucsess.

[bung bo]

that's happened to me before, and at work. i used to work at a sub shop where my fellow employees knew i studied gong fu. so, they tried to test me, and after it was over i'd think "man, i shoulda done this or that". but the real problem was i couldn't fight soft. every time somebody would come in, all i could think of was an arm break or a takedown or something else that is a fightstopper. i didn't hit anyone on the nose cause they'd get all p!ssed off. there was also this stupid kid that used MA movie star's names as verbs. Ex: "dude, i'm gonna jet li yo a$$!" what a stupid mofo.

[Royal Dragon]

Yeah, that's Kind'a what happened. It turns out he's got a freind form whatever state he originate from that does JKD, and he's an informal study of it and just wanted to play. He really didn't expect me to shut him down so fast I think.

I don't know, maybe it's becasue I subconciously know my back won't handle the stress or what, but I really just want to get it over with asap, even when I just play. I used to Kick box alot (with take downs) and drag it out, now I go instinctively for whatever seems to neutralise them right away in 1 move. Not nessarily attack to hurt, just to take balance away so they can't launch more at me. I'm like afraid to go toe to toe now, so I "Cheat" as much as I can.

[Fred Sanford]

wow it must have been hard to hold back. we all know how deadly your kung fu is. good thing you didn't shatter his ribcage and puncture his lungs with the broken ribs. what great control you have of your deadly art. kudos.

[jon]

lol dumb story but this post reminded me of it.

During the week i found the perfect answer to the ' could you block my attack' question which seems to plauge telling anyone you do martial arts.


Cut down version of our conversation


Him: What do you do during the day?
Me: Mainly training martial arts.
Himthrows a fast jab at my face from a distance where he could never make contact) Do you think you could block my punch if i really wanted to hit you?
Me: Nah... but i would drop you when i hit you back.
Him: Fair enough.



Oddly enough this worked a charm and he never pestered me again about doing martial arts

[Imperial Dragon]

RD's art is only as great as his video tapes. What a joke. I think a paper bag would kick his rump. hey dragon what rank was the guy...never mind you don't believe in rank, only delusions of his own creation. Why don't you use that home made Dit Da Jow on your back, sounds like a wonderful brew.('') Try Sun Sun Tong in Chicago to get the real stuff, ask for David but be respectful. Then go to a real school to learn martial arts instead of learing from a book but Im not sure your heart is in it.

[Royal Dragon]

jon,
He he he, that was a good one!

[SevenStar]

a friend of mine was an amateur boxer, and we used to spar all the time in the receiving area back when I used to work at kmart.

[SevenStar]

As far as the topic goes, I'm with ryu - you can't really kick someone's arse wrong. Also, there wasn't really an arse kicking. You merely got the jump on him in a short exchange.

As for not being able to do the technique that you wanted to do, we discuss that all the time on this forum - when it comes down to it, you will use the technique that your body is most accustomed to using, which in this case was not your tai tzu.

Are you gonna be able to get any serious power from palming while stepping backwards?

[Royal Dragon]

Yeah, that stuff happens. I personally think it's a good thing so long as your boss does not get upset about it. Right now, I have one guy I work on the Tai Tzu stuff with, mostly pre arranged stuff, and deciphering the forms for applications, so a little "mix'n it up" free style with someone who uses a different method from me was welcome.

Now that my back is pretty much healed up, I'm actually thinking of dropping my Taiji classes and teaching all together, and looking for some place to train on a regular basis. Ideally, I know where I want to go, but the scedualing is not going to work. The only other place close enough for me that's what I'm looking for would be Golden Mountain (because the Long Fist runs on the same principals as my Tai tzu), but I really don't think my life would aford me the luxury of commiting to the level of dedication those guys demand. In 3 years, my daughter will be driving, maybe then.

What I want is someplace I can go to work on Kung Fu a few days a week, especially two man and free stuff, but at the same time, I really like my Tai Tzu project, and I want to stick with it to see where I end up going with it. I have a complete system of beginning, intermediate and advanced forms all documented (Abit from different lineages). I'd really like to fully expore it all. At there same time, I want to work with someone better than myself in something related to keep perspective on my skills.

[KC Elbows]

I used to finger flick while stepping backward, like when a kick came in(straight), I'd step my lead leg way back into a deep bow so that my lead arm could block the leg before it gained serious power, and I'd finger flick(in sparring- to the forehead, in fighting, eyes), because that doesn't need extra power so much. However, this is mostly good as a distracting move, really hurts the eyes, but won't finish anyone serious, though it can get them thinking. However, I decided it was too dedicated a move for not enough payoff. I'd rather keep on the offensive than back off.

I find that replacing old moves with new ones becomes easier once the new ones support each other. Especially once no thought is involved. In your retelling, you mention thinking of one move and doing another. More sparring time where you force yourself to use the new move should change that. It's the thinking that is the problem.

Kind of the reason I like the internals, not that other styles don't have this as well, just speaking on what I know: in the internals, there are so many important principles that you don't break, they aren't form per se, but structure and tactics. You practice them as part of everything related to the art, so when you're fighting, as long as you're following those, you're probably set up to do all the "moves" you can associate with the pertinent form, if that makes any sense, and you force your opponent to deal first with your structure, because you're not breaking it for him, before causing you harm, provided you've found a way to apply those principles in varied fighting situations. Speaking stand up here, not nearly knowledgable enough to speak of ground fighting usage. I know enough to hopefully get off the ground except against the good ones, and nothing more.

Just my .02.

And Imperial Dragon, Fred Sanford doesn't come on this forum just to slam RD, he actually contributes. The only reason you've EVER posted is to continue your grudge against RD. Go wank elsewhere if you're not gonna contribute to the forum.

[Royal Dragon]

Also, there wasn't really an arse kicking. You merely got the jump on him in a short exchange

Reply]
Very true.

when it comes down to it, you will use the technique that your body is most accustomed to using, which in this case was not your tai tzu.

Reply]
Again, this is exactly what happened. I think it's becasue I haven't really worked the Tai Tzu in full free fighting, especially due to the timeing of my back injury. However, the kick turned knee jam is something I have used many times in free sparring years ago. I'm just suprised it's still in there to the point of automated response. I'ts not like I have done any kind of serious fight work in like 3 years or so. You'd think it would have degraded by now. Instead, it's still in there so good that it overrid what I wanted to do.

Are you gonna be able to get any serious power from palming while stepping backwards?

Reply]
Back in the mid 90's, I was without a teacher (after tsai's, before tai tzu), BUT I had a Good Kempo guy I used to spar with on a regular basis. He was way better than me, and pretty much pounded me at will. Since I had no teacher, I was working out forms from books on the side, and I picked up a good Louhan Set that way. One of the moves in that form is a step back, punch forward reset your feet and punch again. In the form, it looks pretty dumb, but one day as I was getting the snot pounded out of me (close to full contact, head gear and open finger gloves no foot gear or chest gear), and this perticular move just sort of came out of me and I knocked him silly. I actually stunned him enough to where we had to stop, take our gear off and take a breather. (So much for book learning being useless).

The Tai Tzu technique I wanted to use works in a similar fashion, only it's implmented a bit differently, and uses a palm instead of a fist. I think it could be used in the same type of situation my Louhan book technique is, only in closer quarters, But it's not free fight tested yet.

[Liokault]

wow it must have been hard to hold back. we all know how deadly your kung fu is. good thing you didn't shatter his ribcage and puncture his lungs with the broken ribs. what great control you have of your deadly art. kudos.

Whats with the sarcastic tone here? Do you belive it to be hard to shatter a rib?

I have litterally lost track of the number ribs I have broken (on other guys) sparring, normaly while trying to go easy on them and limite the head shots.

[Royal Dragon]

I used to finger flick while stepping backward, like when a kick came in(straight), I'd step my lead leg way back into a deep bow so that my lead arm could block the leg before it gained serious power, and I'd finger flick(in sparring- to the forehead, in fighting, eyes), because that doesn't need extra power so much. However, this is mostly good as a distracting move, really hurts the eyes, but won't finish anyone serious, though it can get them thinking. However, I decided it was too dedicated a move for not enough payoff. I'd rather keep on the offensive than back off.

Reply]
Hmmmm, it could also stun them just enough for you to turn the tables on them and work in some solid finnishing moves too.

I find that replacing old moves with new ones becomes easier once the new ones support each other. Especially once no thought is involved. In your retelling, you mention thinking of one move and doing another. More sparring time where you force yourself to use the new move should change that. It's the thinking that is the problem.

Reply]
Yeah, I think the issue is doing that move in the air too much, and not enough against a resisting partner. It's only been reacently that I have felt strong enough to work with other people though. Even then i'm cautious and just do pre arranged two man stuff mostly. I need to find a good group to work with now.

Kind of the reason I like the internals, not that other styles don't have this as well, just speaking on what I know: in the internals, there are so many important principles that you don't break, they aren't form per se, but structure and tactics. You practice them as part of everything related to the art, so when you're fighting, as long as you're following those, you're probably set up to do all the "moves" you can associate with the pertinent form, if that makes any sense, and you force your opponent to deal first with your structure, because you're not breaking it for him, before causing you harm, provided you've found a way to apply those principles in varied fighting situations. Speaking stand up here, not nearly knowledgable enough to speak of ground fighting usage. I know enough to hopefully get off the ground except against the good ones, and nothing more.

Reply]
Yeah, I'm kind of attracted to the internals for that reason myself. MAstery of the principlas allows spontanious creation of new techniques on the spot as needed. Blind memorisation of techniques really doesn't give you that ability.

Just my .02.

And Imperial Dragon, Fred Sanford doesn't come on this forum just to slam RD, he actually contributes. The only reason you've EVER posted is to continue your grudge against RD. Go wank elsewhere if you're not gonna contribute to the forum.

Imperial Dragon is just jelious because he has this system he *Thought* was developed by a long dead Emperor, and it turned out to just be a modern Yang derived Tai Chi style. I at least have the real thing documented from multiple credible sources and I can work on that project when ever I want without delusions. He just has a farce and he's upset about it, that's all.