Tradition is What?

[Vash]

Just like seeing my name in bold

I've got a question for youse traditionalists (not technique related):

1. Do you/your school use the dress of whichever culture birthed your art?

2. Do you/your school use the 'jargon' of said culture when identifying actions, techniques, et al?


I answer yes to both of these. No, another question, if yes . . .
why?

Not to offend anyone (particularly those with whom I study) but I am in America. I don't pronounce the Japanese terminology so much as I butcher it and defile its grave. I don't look all that sexy, or feel all the loose, in the traditional karate gi. So, one day, I wondered to myself, "why are we borrowing the culture when what we study is the martial art?"

Lord knows I couldn't tell an Okinawan or Japanese student the technique I was going to do. Better to just show 'em.

Just sleepy after full-store inventory. Talk amongst yourselves.

Peace.

[Surferdude]

Yes to both, I can say some japanese techniques, and i do wear a gi(if thats what you mean by dress)...But mostly we only use the technique name in Japanese, like mawashi-geri, or oi-tsuki.

We dont say the dojo kun in japanese though...

So no we dont boroow the tradtion of the culture,just the tradition of the martial arts, the way that Gichin Funakoshi taught

[Former castleva]

"1. Do you/your school use the dress of whichever culture birthed your art?"

Gi is solely practical!

[Sho]

In my case, yes to both.

I believe it's very respectful towards the ancestors to pass on the tradition and to train accordingly. Even though the world is undergoing constant changes, we mustn't forget the past, for it is the past that defines the present.

[Former castleva]

"I believe it's very respectful towards the ancestors to pass on the tradition and to train accordingly. Even though the world is undergoing constant changes, we mustn't forget the past, for it is the past that defines the present."

Just to heat it up a little,do you think that it is absolutely necessary to do this? I mean,of course it is necessary to train "accordingly" but to preserve culture..?
Your reply has a historical tone to it,what do you mean by ancestors?

[Sho]

Originally posted by Former castleva
Just to heat it up a little,do you think that it is absolutely necessary to do this? I mean,of course it is necessary to train "accordingly" but to preserve culture..?
Your reply has a historical tone to it,what do you mean by ancestors?

Well, obviously people have their own opinions on these things, and I believe that it is respectful to pass on the tradition that was once passed on to you and your teacher, even if the past masters were no longer in charge of things (deceased). In a society like China, family is very important and it is equally important to abide by the family tradition and to pass it on to the next generation as a heritage. Other cultures take it differently and some are not as strict with tradition as others. It's highly dependent on cultural backgrounds, so there cannot be a single universal code.

[Sho]

Oh, and with 'ancestors' I meant past masters, originators, predecessors, etc. Whatever you want to call them.

[Former castleva]

Thank you for a careful reply.

[Laughing Cow]

1.) No.
Tracksuit pants and T-Shirt for us, TJQ suit for demoes only.

2.) Yes.
It helps when we got our annual get-together, not everybody speaks each others tongue but the terminology remains the same thus confusion is avoided.

[Kempo Guy]

1. Do you/your school use the dress of whichever culture birthed your art?

YES. We wear Keiko Gi and Hakama. For formal occasions we wear a Kimono style uwagi.

2. Do you/your school use the 'jargon' of said culture when identifying actions, techniques, et al?

Yes.

Why? Because many of the principles can not be properly conveyed in English. The school I study, being a Koryu Bujutsu(old style Japanese MA) is very steeped in the tradition and culture of Japan.

Just to heat it up a little,do you think that it is absolutely necessary to do this?

YES.

KG

[Former castleva]

"YES. "

Because- ?
I´m not demanding an explanation,but if you´d like to point out why it is necessary OUTSIDE of personal/common preference,I´d like to hear.

[Vash]

We would be very interested in why you feel keeping the cultural aspects of your art are necessary.

Oh, ttt.

I feel that the only things necessary to keep, at least from a cultural stand point would be the names of the forms (if any) in your system.

Besides, most of the karate students/sensei I know use purely Japanese terminology when referencing techniques/actions in karate. Which makes only a bit of sense to me, as some of the terms (such as the numbers. God, why must we count in Japanese? I'm American! I butcher the English language enough as it is!) are different in Okinawa and Japan.

That is, if you're doing an Okinawan-based art.

Were I to start my own school today (thank God I can't, don't have to) I'd require comfortable workout clothes, belt ranks could be worn, not necessary, no bowing in/out, no counting in Japanese/Okinawan, no bowing at beginning/end of kata, minimum use of foreign terms.

But, maybe I'm an @$$hole and a Jingoist.

Sue me.

[Sho]

People can be very different.

[Kempo Guy]

Sorry for the delayed response. Been traveling (work related) and didn't have much time to get on the forums.

Ok, why did I answer yes in whether or not it's absolutely necessary to keep the cultural aspects of the art intact?

That’s a pretty good question. My personal opinion is that foreign budoka (I’m speaking of strictly traditional Japanese arts as that is my primary study) should make a serious effort to understand or at least familiarize oneself with Japanese etiquette as well as language if they wish to be taken seriously by seniors in their respective arts.

I feel that the study of budo is more than the study and memorization of physical techniques, but rather the study and preservation of a cultural “treasure” (art). This study should include language, etiquette, history (at least as it relates to the art you study), and of course technical application of your art. Also, imho to not educate oneself about the culture and etiquette from your arts country of origin limits ones ability to properly interpret the original intent and meaning of ones chosen art.

A final note, I mentioned earlier in the thread a lot of the Japanese terminology as it pertains to budo does not translate accurately into English. There may be multiple meanings and implications associated with the particular terminology and it will not do it justice to simply translate it to English as it may diminish the original idea presented.

So YES, I feel one should keep the ‘trappings’ of tradition intact.

KG

[Vash]

KG:

Dang good response. As relates to your area of study, that is an excellent reason.

For me, I wish to "preserve" certain cultural aspects of my art, as it is Okinawan. I feel, though, that exchanging those Japanese aspects which were added to it would be a good idea in America.

Again, excellent post.