Tradition is What?

[Vash]

ttt

[David Jamieson]

this is what tradition means.

tra·di·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-dshn)
n.
The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.

A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage.

A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners. See Synonyms at heritage.

A body of unwritten religious precepts.

A time-honored practice or set of such practices.

Law. Transfer of property to another.

cheers

[Vash]

Indeed. Clinical, but irrefutably correct.

Now, what baring (sp) does cultural tradition have on a fighting discipline?

[bonetone]

From my experience cultural tradition is highly relative to programming, and conditioning. How you think, act, move. fight, are all effected by the environment and culture one is brought up in. Sure a person can recondition to do things differently, and there are still instincts and commonalities within our species, but early on in one's life is when an individual is shaped the most and what they are experiencing at that time will surly shape a person for the future. I don't know if this has anything to do with what you were talking about, but I thought I'd add another post.

[SevenStar]

Tradition can have some bearing - the question is should it have any bearing? In some cases, yes. Take judo, for example. Kano was a pacifist - he based his art around this. Can a throw KYTFO? heck yeah, but the principles he based his art around are stemmed in his pacifist nature - principles such as mutual welfare and benefit (Jita Kyoei) Which seems to promote interdependence, i.e. coach and student relationship. It's encouraged that judoka develop their skills to the fullest and become of some benefit to society.

The "Ju" in Judo means gentle.

[Vash]

Excellent examples Sevenstar.

Here's another question: If the neo-Traditional aspects of an art, such as cultural behavior during the training of said art, are discarded, but the training and technical base remain the same, can the art still be called by the same name?

[rogue]

Sure.

[SevenStar]

I would say yes, but there are some who would say no.

[Vash]

Why do you think some people would object to removing cultural tradition from martial practice?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Vash
Why do you think some people would object to removing cultural tradition from martial practice?

depends on the style. If it's something competitive, such study can get in the way of training - not in a major way, but I can see it happening. From a religious standpoint, to attract more students. I know several people who refuse to train in shaolin, for example because of the religious connotation that goes with it.

In other senses, it can just be easier. Being American, I can learn the term "lifting propping pulling ankle" faster than trying to learn to say and spell "sasae tsuri komi ashi"

[Vash]

Good points.

Do you think there would be objection to the removing of cultural practices in arts such as Okinawan karate, non Shaolin kung fu styles, and the like? If so, why?

[Former castleva]

From a purely martial standpoint,I cannot see why removing what you call cultural practices (granted we have the same understanding) would harm the practice of the art.
I think I would have argued for the opposite view,in the past that is,but come to think about it,why not?
I think of such as unnecessary baggage.

I don´t know anything about that though.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Former castleva
From a purely martial standpoint,I cannot see why removing what you call cultural practices (granted we have the same understanding) would harm the practice of the art.
I think I would have argued for the opposite view,in the past that is,but come to think about it,why not?
I think of such as unnecessary baggage.

I don´t know anything about that though.

these cultural practices are established ( I think I touched on this earlier in this thread, I can't remember) - in some cases they add structure. Judo for example. I can go to any judo school in the world, and no matter where I go, kesa gatame is the same technique.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Vash
Good points.

Do you think there would be objection to the removing of cultural practices in arts such as Okinawan karate, non Shaolin kung fu styles, and the like? If so, why?

there probably would be - from the country of origin. you are changing (and possibly in the eyes of some) destrooying their art, which is part of their culture and heritage.

[HungMoJue]

in an nutshell-tradition is totally committing yourself in a system rather than dabbling for a few months and saying you know it. All too often, there are guys from poor JKD schools who go from one style to another, simply getting a handle on a few basic techniqwues, and thinking, "Oh, I got it!" Then there are the Burton Richardsons, and Dan Inosantos, who totally imerse themselves 24/7 in a system for years, not weeks, to understand it and develop attributes. I have seen guys say, "I'll uses a Muay Thai foot jab to enter, then a wing chun trap , to a kali takedown.", or worse yet, "Well I HAVE the Wing Chun..." because they learned lop-sao drills and some chi-sao, so now they HAVE the Wing Chun. This mentality comes from bad parenting-molly coddling Mommies who let their kids quit anything that requires real work, and telling their kid that it's not their fault. Eventually, the kid never sticks to anything, and finds a home at a bad JKD school with a teacher from the same upringing, who takes seminars and knows it all.
I don't want anyone to think I am anti JKD-I am simply anti BAD JKD.-The Last Emperor