Boxing without gloves

[yenhoi]

IF:

without slippng, bobbing, or weaving, that sucks man.

As far as blocking goes, the boxer will use his elbows combined with the waist to "block" most anything. I would think most of the time he would choose to either attack, slip, bob and weave, jump or move. He also has the ability to check the other boxers offending elbows, hips, and shoulders as the fight moves. Many boxer-drills have the boxer checking or manipulating his opponents elbows, hips, and shoulders before-during-and after attacking or defending.

Boxers also duck.

[Crimson Phoenix]

personal experience:

you CANNOT box without gloves like you do with them, for sure. Some punches can be blocked the same way (slap the jabs), but some definitely need adaptations (hooks particularly).

also, I can assure you that gloves indeed FACILITATE KOs...without gloves it's much more messy, but KO is less frequent...the power is more focused, hence the brain doesn't move that much inside of the skull. You can have a completely shattered face and still be conscious, whereas with gloves you can be KO and your baby face almost intact...

[Kristoffer]

yeah.. can't add more to this

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Crimson Phoenix
personal experience:

you CANNOT box without gloves like you do with them, for sure. Some punches can be blocked the same way (slap the jabs), but some definitely need adaptations (hooks particularly).

also, I can assure you that gloves indeed FACILITATE KOs...without gloves it's much more messy, but KO is less frequent...the power is more focused, hence the brain doesn't move that much inside of the skull. You can have a completely shattered face and still be conscious, whereas with gloves you can be KO and your baby face almost intact...

Cool.

[yenhoi]

IF:

There are some threads on this forum about pre-queens-rules boxing. Im sure you can find them, if anything, ask blackjack or someone like that for those types of links.

You might even find stuff on hsing-i forums, believe it or not. Modern day boxing techniques are primarily for the ring.

[bustr]

Liokault

Where did you see the bare knuckle fighting by gypsies? Is it online?

[IronFist]

Guys, I don't care about the evolution of boxing. I simply wanted to know how boxing performed when a direct crossover to actual fighting was made.

[yenhoi]

Ok.

Dont forget things like bicep stops vs the hook, and shoulder stop vs the straight..

Clinching.

[Crimson Phoenix]

I shied away from the biceps block on hooks, and do it only when I'm caught too late to do anything else. There are several reasons to that. The first one is that it simply hurts if you take it on the wrong spot (a tender spot, or a protruding bone). Bare knuckles generate a sharp and "pointy" power, that can really numb your arm or generate a very unpleasant pulsating pain on the spot that was hit, if the guy knows how to properly turn his fist on a hook (lot of them don't, they turn their fist only halfway, maybe precisely because they are used to the big striking surface of the gloves). Also, you have to hold your arm real close to your head, because chances are if he got a decent amount of power you could feel first his blow to your arm, and second your own arm hitting the side of your head from the resulting blow, which is twice painful. Not to mention that these akward rebounding effects can make you lose some timing (mentally and physically). If you do squeeze in your arm properly, it still is an akward position.
I really don't like it.
Against a hook there's nothing better than stepping or evade, and it's easier said than done. The next best choice would be, IMHO, to jam it early at the forearm level by extending your own arm. It doesn't work that well with guys who can throw a hook by using the body rotation, and not the shoulder power, because of the shorter and more efficient structure they adopt (tough to describe, but easy to show the difference). On the other hand this kind of "connected hooks" ony work at very close range, if the range is longer you have to open the arm and shoulder a little, and the "early jam block" becomes easier.

As for stopping punches with your palms, I found it a valid tactics. I personally have a decent palm conditionning (thanks to white crane) but I bet even an untrained palm should do the job because it is a naturally strong structure. Block with the heel of the palm, higher your wrist could fold. Not that painful, but giving a sense of "mushy block" both to you and your opponent, which might invite him to throw some more, and make you lose some timing once again. If you send your palm early in contact of his jab or cross, you will jam his punch and give him an unpleasing return shock in his arm or shoulder, that you can sue to gain the opportunity...

My favorite move, when blocking linear punches, however, is the regular savate slap. You just slap the incoming punch to the side. It's a very light block that requires almost no energy and that is surprisingly efficient when you caught the trick. Indeed, linear punches have their energy concentrated in a straight line, and have very little resistance on the sides, so by slapping them you just redirect them to the side of your head, just the amount needed not to be touched, it's very nice. Don't be too relaxed though, some have good arms and structure, so the slapping has to be adapted in strenght. If you slap too lightly, or to late, you can kiss the sides of your cheeks goodbye. You can even make that block an attack: slap hard and sharp to gradually numb his arm. It has several drawbacks though, specially strategically (I can comment on that later if you want), but it can be quite useful in time...
In ziran men they have blocks that instead of using the palm slap uses the heart of the fist and the protruding knuckles to litterally strike the incoming arm in a very painful way. Someone showed that to me once, and believe me after such a treatment your will to punch really fades away.

Yenhoi mentionned the shoulder block, and it can be a very valid tactic provided you're one time ahead of your opponent: it's akward to do as a reaction, but a very good startup for a counter if you have read the opponent's game, because you can use the shoulder to bump off the attack while your body is already moving for the big one. Blacktaoist, on his site, shows a very goods use of the shoulder bump, that he uses to redirect the punch (it's like he's slapping it with his shoulder instead of with the palm as I described), and at the same time or with a little off-time he sends his own attack as a counter. You can do that when advancing (my fav'), but BT seems quite proficient using it during a backward evade.

All of this based on my personal experience, and that of "colleagues" that I have no doubt know what they are talking about...
Dang you make me want to go at it again with your threads!!!

[IronFist]

good discussion