paulie zink and the tai shing pek kwar family conflict

[Miqi]

irony, it isn't just for breakfast .....

Do you have a learning disability? Seriously? Maybe you dropped out of school? You utterly fail at basic logic

You know we have one thing in common at least: a great deal of what we say to others here is really not about them, but about things going on in our own hearts.

Good luck to you, David.

[lkfmdc]

Good luck to you, David.

translation = he can't keep up so he'll just avoid the issue

[LaterthanNever]

I don't really do 'petty', so I can't really address this as such."

That's debatable, but you do delusional quite awesomely!


"But it's very interesting how what is actually a very high level of physical ability has been turned into a negative via smutty remarks. That's, again, just another example of the embarrassment of lower level martial artists, I suspect. "


Being as flexible as Paulie Zink isn't a negative. Not like being out of shape is. "

Great flexibility is nice! But what else does he bring to the table? All I see are these photos him being flexible.



Tell me something Mr. Zink devotee..now lets look at the time frame here. It's been decades since he has been labeled fraudulent, phony, etc.etc...

Don't you think that he's been given enough opportunity to perhaps clear the air by offering Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung an apology, a mea-culpa,etc. and perhaps meeting him and burying the hatchet? How about having a settling of differences by issuing a public statement for the monkey community worldwide to view? If Cho Chat Ling existed and more importantly taught Tai Shing Pek Kwar and he was a disciple of the late General Gan Dak Hoi, there must be some record of it, a rememberance of Cho Chat Ling by an elderly kung fu brother of Cho Chat Ling and especially a rememberance of CCL by Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung.

So, how come this has never transpired?

[CLFNole]

If you know anything about Chan Sau Chung's fighters they learned pek kwar and other northern stuff. Not saying any didn't learn any monkey sets over time its just thet have to go through a lot of other stuff first and may never acquiredt the monkey sets. Don't look for people running around the ring acting like a monkey for god sake.

Don't think anyone said Zink wasn't acrobatic or flexible. He runs around like a monkey with the best of them he just made up his own lineage and has very little martial techniques in his forms.

[Gru Bianca]

How would you know?

Point is.....how don't you know.....?!

[mooyingmantis]

Don't you think that he's been given enough opportunity to perhaps clear the air by offering Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung an apology, a mea-culpa,etc. and perhaps meeting him and burying the hatchet? How about having a settling of differences by issuing a public statement for the monkey community worldwide to view?

Chan Sau Chung started the ****ing contest. So why would Paulie Zink need to clear the air or bury a hatchet? Zink never took up a hatchet. I cannot remember Zink saying one thing in print to disparage Chan.

If Cho Chat Ling existed and more importantly taught Tai Shing Pek Kwar and he was a disciple of the late General Gan Dak Hoi, there must be some record of it, a rememberance of Cho Chat Ling by an elderly kung fu brother of Cho Chat Ling and especially a rememberance of CCL by Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung.

I remember a photo of Zink and a Chinese man standing together. The man was suppose to be Cho Chat Ling. The man did not look very old compared to Zink.

Here is my take/guess on the situation based on the evidence provided by Zink and Matsuda. I may be right, I may be wrong. But I think my guess is as good as anyone elses.

It is possible, I think likely, that Zink studied with someone who trained in TSPK from Hong Kong as Matsuda stated on his website. My guess is that the person trained in TSPK in Hong Kong, or claimed to train in TSPK in Hong Kong. Zink may be been duped himself by this individual. Perhaps that is why he never publically fought back against Chan's statements.

Whether Zink and Matsuda know the Taishing curriculum of TSPK we will never know. I do not believe we can take Chan's word for it since he has a vested interest in being known as "the Monkey King" and being the sole inheritor of the system. And since we know of only two other persons to have learned all five monkey forms from Chan, his son and Chow Keung, we have nothing with which to compare Zink and Matsuda's curriculum.

If Chan was not the only student to have learned all five monkey forms from Gan, perhaps others may have taught the forms to their students. One of these students may have been Cho Chat Ling.

I realize that all the above is mere speculation. But it is another possibility.

[mooyingmantis]

... and has very little martial techniques in his forms.

I would disagree with this statement.

Though Zink clearly made up the below form for tournament competition, it does contain many fighting techniques if you know what to look for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOvw1y26yFc

I have watched forms demonstrated by Chan and Zink. Both are interesting to watch.

I believe that each man has some nice skills. Chan has a "provable" lineage and helped train some good fighters many years ago. Zink not only has amazing flexibility, but incredible leg strength as demonstrated in his forms. Both demonstrate practical applications from their forms.

Of the two, I think that Zink's curriculum (through Matsuda) will in time replace the curriculum of Chan's. Unless Chan's son returns to teaching or Chow Keung teaches the monkey curriculum more freely than Chan has.

[PalmStriker]

I can't see why this is such a big deal?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOvw1y26yFc

The clips I see of Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung, I can only hear the music in the background but I don't observe him mouthing monkey like noises, does anyone else? LOL


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvTo75cA49M

Master Chan's Monkey Style looks TCMA and representative of Chinese Kungfu. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEHhBQFZiRw

[PalmStriker]

You guys do make a strong case against Zink. However, the guy has won some championships at kung fu tournaments. So if his stuff is not real monkey kung fu, then why didn't the judges at these tournaments notice it? As for tai shing pek kwar in the United States, I belive Sifu Chan Tai-shan used to teach it in New York, but he is no longer teaching. I believe one of his students, I think his name is Gus Kapros, teaches it in New York, but I believe he makes you master Lama Kung fu and Choy lif fut first, but I am not totally 100% sure about that, so please do not quote me on it. Peace.

KwoonShu means anything goes. Making stuff up is entertainment friendly.

[LaterthanNever]

"Chan Sau Chung started the ****ing contest. So why would Paulie Zink need to clear the air or bury a hatchet? Zink never took up a hatchet."

Fair enough..and I stand corrected. I guess what I don't get is..why doesn't Zink himself(if he's legit that is) write a statement supporting his lineage to the effect of "hey..enough is enough"(or similar statement)


"I cannot remember Zink saying one thing in print to disparage Chan."

Commendable.


"It is possible, I think likely, that Zink studied with someone who trained in TSPK from Hong Kong as Matsuda stated on his website. My guess is that the person trained in TSPK in Hong Kong, or claimed to train in TSPK in Hong Kong. Zink may be been duped himself by this individual. Perhaps that is why he never publically fought back against Chan's statements. "

Also makes sense.

Whether Zink and Matsuda know the Taishing curriculum of TSPK we will never know."

Here's the thing..you are correct in that anyone can be duped..but wouldn't someone of intelligence after a while say "I'm suspcicious..something aint right here"? You'd think that he might even approach GM Chan and say "I think I'm being duped. I'd like to study the real monkey style with you. Would you accept me as your student please?"

I guess I'm an idealist..oh the shame of it


"I do not believe we can take Chan's word for it since he has a vested interest in being known as "the Monkey King" and being the sole inheritor of the system. And since we know of only two other persons to have learned all five monkey forms from Chan, his son and Chow Keung, we have nothing with which to compare Zink and Matsuda's curriculum. "

Well if Zink feels dissed..why doesnt he or Matsuda offer a syllabus to publish then?

"If Chan was not the only student to have learned all five monkey forms from Gan, perhaps others may have taught the forms to their students. One of these students may have been Cho Chat Ling."

See above

"I realize that all the above is mere speculation. But it is another possibility."

Yes..and I am not taking sides..but I do wonder why after just about everyone taking a swipe at Zink..why he doesn't assert himself already?

[lkfmdc]

Don't let the fact that Zink and Matusda copied pictures out of Chan's book without crediting him, created a fake person and tried to pass autofelatio off as Dai Sing Pek Gwa bother you... nah, Zink is innocent

[mooyingmantis]

Well if Zink feels dissed..why doesnt he or Matsuda offer a syllabus to publish then?

Matsuda has already began putting their curriculum on video for anyone to purchase. They are available at his website.

..but I do wonder why after just about everyone taking a swipe at Zink..why he doesn't assert himself already?

Some people are secure enough in who they are and what they do that they really don't care what others think. It is rare to find people with that much character.

Don't let the fact that Zink and Matusda copied pictures out of Chan's book without crediting him...

I agree that this is not cool, if it happened.

...created a fake person...

Never proven, just your opinion.

...and tried to pass autofelatio off as Dai Sing Pek Gwa

A typical low class David Ross opinion. His performance/forms won him three Long Beach International forms competitions. Apparently the judges felt there was worth in his overall performances.

[lkfmdc]

A typical low class opinion.

still better than an IGNORANT OPINION

[LaterthanNever]

"Don't let the fact that Zink and Matusda copied pictures out of Chan's book without crediting him..."

I am the LAST person to condone such tactics. Nevertheless, it's not unheard of in the MA community. That doesn't make it ok though.

I thought I had heard or read somewhere that the real origin of the GM Chan Sau Chung feud w/ Zink was something to the effect of..Zink met GM Chan at..was it a seminar? Not sure. And as the story goes..he referred to him as "Mister Chan" or didn't use the grandmaster title? Something along those lines..it's been so long I can't remember the exact story.

At any rate..the story is that GM Chan felt that Mr. Zink was guilty of effrontery. (as he probably should).

[lkfmdc]

"Don't let the fact that Zink and Matusda copied pictures out of Chan's book without crediting him..."

I am the LAST person to condone such tactics. Nevertheless, it's not unheard of in the MA community. That doesn't make it ok though.

I thought I had heard or read somewhere that the real origin of the GM Chan Sau Chung feud w/ Zink was something to the effect of..Zink met GM Chan at..was it a seminar? Not sure. And as the story goes..he referred to him as "Mister Chan" or didn't use the grandmaster title? Something along those lines..it's been so long I can't remember the exact story.

At any rate..the story is that GM Chan felt that Mr. Zink was guilty of effrontery. (as he probably should).

One of my hing-dai knew Zink in CA, my hing-dai went to HK and trained with Chan Sau Chung... he brought the books to Zink (Zink had asked for them and paid my hing-dai for them) ... FOR YEARS Zink walked around with a friend who was Chinese and introduced him as his master, but didnt' know the real name of Dai Sing Pek Gwa, didn't know what it meant or the history... after he got the books from my hing-dai he suddenly developed this story ... sort of "strange" don't you think???

It is also beyond retarded to claim that winning a karate tournament with ignorant karate judges some how validates Zink's skills