"MMA" Vs. "Traditional", "Traditional" Vs. "MMA"

[Shaolin-Do]

Alright... MP had it right on another thread. What the hell are we doing differently? I train traiditional kung fu, but more than one style... so... traditional MMAist?
Anyhow, how is what we are doing so different? (Apart from breathing excersises, stylistic differences like power generation)
Do those of you arguing not realize that neither style is "better"? The person who trains harder is better. The hours one stylist spends in the gym training hard is not spent any better or worse than the hours someone from another style puts in the gym.
Some of the training methods may differ, but a good majority of them have a similar training used by another style. Were all on different paths to the same destination.
How many of you think that what we do is really that different, and why?
No stupid ass flame posts... please...

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Shaolin-Do
Alright... MP had it right on another thread. What the hell are we doing differently? I train traiditional kung fu, but more than one style... so... traditional MMAist?
Anyhow, how is what we are doing so different? (Apart from breathing excersises, stylistic differences like power generation)
Do those of you arguing not realize that neither style is "better"? The person who trains harder is better. The hours one stylist spends in the gym training hard is not spent any better or worse than the hours someone from another style puts in the gym.
Some of the training methods may differ, but a good majority of them have a similar training used by another style. Were all on different paths to the same destination.
How many of you think that what we do is really that different, and why?
No stupid ass flame posts... please...

Your SC training is starting to show thru in your posts

[Shaolin-Do]

Maybe kirk beat some sense into me or something.
But really, theres a lot of people on here who seem to think that time spent training is spent in vain due to what style you practice... when in fact if you study style X which is "vastly superior" to style Y, but only train 2 hours a day, but style Y guy trains 5... chances are style Y dudes gonna whoop your ass.

[Merryprankster]

stylistic differences like power generation

This is a fallacy. There are only so many ways to move. You are doing nothing that fundamentally different from a boxer when you punch, I strongly suspect.

[Shaolin-Do]

Probably not, but Im speaking more on the lines of bagua as opposed to Tae Kwan Do.
Differences may be subtle, but they are there.
But thats not what this thread is about
Ive learned a couple of ways to throw the same punch... Neither one is right or wrong... I do what works for me.

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Merryprankster


This is a fallacy. There are only so many ways to move. You are doing nothing that fundamentally different from a boxer when you punch, I strongly suspect.

I think the fallacy isn't a complete one. I agree, punching in different styles probably has far more similarities than differences, so it's probably more correct to say "style x uses a power generation method on move X that style Y does not focus on so much, because they focus more on move Y".

Like bjj elbows. They're sort of, well, there to fill space. Whereas muay thai and some kung fu styles (and bjj practitoners who want good elbow attacks) tighten the power up. So really, it's not that in close kung fu styles and muay thai and other styles have a power generation in their elbows that is ENTIRELY unique, it's that bjj guys don't go to bjj to learn elbows.

In addition, I think some of the internal styles have a different training methodology to teach power generation(chen, hsing yi, etc). The power may not be different, but the method for gaining the power is defined to the slightest motion to ensure the power is there. I'm not sure it's exactly a different power than other styles use, but the training is definitely done a different way.

[KC Elbows]

As for bagua vs. tae kwon do, didn't many korean teachers adopt the sine wave for power in their forms? It's my understanding that earlier versions, and some who still practice this way, had the power/speed/tension progressively increasing only in the last inch of the attack, not at all unlike how power is produced in many kung fu styles among others- loose, then suddenly heavy.

[Merryprankster]

I'm not sure it's exactly a different power than other styles use, but the training is definitely done a different way.

Precisely my point. The way the body moves for proper power generation really can't be that different. A good hard boxing punch is going to have the same sort of power generation as a good hard karate or TKD punch or Kung Fu punch (when comparing apples to apples).

The issue is one of training focus. "TKD punches" are usually considered sub par because they don't really do it. Boxing kicks probably look pretty dumb

I guess my point is a properly thrown punch is going to look similar (more than similar) regardless of what you train

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
A good hard boxing punch is going to have the same sort of power generation as a good hard karate or TKD punch or Kung Fu punch (when comparing apples to apples).

Thus proving that boxing came from kung fu.

Anyway, yes, I think that's most of the difference. I think some styles have a few funky moves they apply power to that others just do another way, but for the most part, yes, it's all mugging techniques.

[truewrestler]

there are some minor differences

http://www.karatebushido.com/picture...os/shaolin.jpg

[Dark Knight]

That would also depend on what your final goal is. If we are talking about being on the Olympic TKD team, then style differences matter, a Boxer will not make it. Conversly if you are talking about beating Tyson in Boxing....

But in the picture of self defense, street combat its not the style, but how you train. I met a TKD Black Belt last month who trained for tournaments, he has no power in any of his strikes. He fought a TKD guy from a school that spars heavy contact, he was punched out of the air (pretty funny to watch, its good to laugh at your friends pain) He trains with us now and has improvedjust from a change in training method.

Experience is the best teacher. Take any style and let that person fight for a couple months. He will become a good fighter.

Dont get me wrong, you dont want to throw a beginner out there with no experience and start beating him.

Build a solid delivery system, then properly work them into sparing.

[brothernumber9]

If person X throws a punch, they are in a bow stance, the back foot is pointed 90 degrees outward from the direction of the punch, the punch is all arm, no twisting of hips and hardly any of the torso, back leg completely locked straight from beginning to end. elbow flares out wide between start and end of punch. person X means to throw the punch this way.

person Y throws a punch , in a bow stance the back foot is pointed straight forward, heel on the ground, back leg starts slightly bent then pushes from ground to straighten, hips turn/torque from slight sideways to square forward, torso follows suit. elbow stays in close to body during punch (at least as far as before a straight arm pulls it away some). both latts tense at end of punch. person Y means to throw the punch this way.

X and Y fairly different stylistic differences in power generation on same technique.

[Ford Prefect]

Merry P,

I've actually been taught a way to generate power in KF that I was never taught in my years spent boxing competitively and the time I spent training MMA. It took quite some time to be refined into being useful, but I was impressed with those that had.

Shaolin-do,

While on the surface time spent training would seem to be a deciding indicator, I don't think it is. I don't think it's really a stylistic debate, but rather one about different training methods. If a guy spends 2 hours a day practicing solo drills and forms and even spars once or twice a week, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts he gets whipped by the guy that spends an hour a day practicing dynamic partner drills and sparring. (all else being equal)

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Shaolin-Do
The hours one stylist spends in the gym training hard is not spent any better or worse than the hours someone from another style puts in the gym.

not necessarily true...

Some of the training methods may differ, but a good majority of them have a similar training used by another style. Were all on different paths to the same destination.
How many of you think that what we do is really that different, and why?
No stupid ass flame posts... please...

the main difference is time. judge for yourself...how long do you think it would take for you to become effective with SC vs the time it would take with SD?

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect

While on the surface time spent training would seem to be a deciding indicator, I don't think it is. I don't think it's really a stylistic debate, but rather one about different training methods. If a guy spends 2 hours a day practicing solo drills and forms and even spars once or twice a week, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts he gets whipped by the guy that spends an hour a day practicing dynamic partner drills and sparring. (all else being equal)

I guess what you are saying is that it comes down to the efficiency of the training as much or more than the time spent training. Are MMA more efficient in their training than TMA?