Evolution of SLT

[Phenix]

how should the next Evolution of SLT be?

[rubthebuddha]

what do you mean by evolution, and can you give a couple examples of how it has evolved in the past?

[S.Teebas]

First, whats wrong with it? As far as i can see, there's the posibility to train for many years in getting it more and more perfect. And the closer to prefect it becomes the more power we can generate.

Maybe you could add some iron body? (that is if the training doesnt require us to go in the opposite direction to help cultivate the SNT)

I think alot of people like WC becasue it allows you to keep soft hands anyway. ...but what about the bodys ability to take a solid hit? Does SNT/WC prepare us for this?
One key point is constant relaxation, so what happens when our relaxed stomach recieves a solid strike?

One flip side of this argument could be: Do we train to attack or to take hits?

[Sihing73]

Hello,

SNT is a framework on which to build. It is comparable to the Alphabet or base numbers. As long as the concepts are followed there is no limit to how the “letters” can be put into “words.” Many people are against the idea of making changes. Some due to the fear of losing something others because they do not understand the idea of adhering to a concept rather than form and become slaves to their interpretation of the art.

In our approach, Sifu has already made modifications to how the SNT is performed due to our experiences based on actual usage. The most remarkable difference is in the reversal of the Wu and Fook Saus in the first form. While many will disagree, we feel this change makes the application easier to grasp more quickly for the average student. In addition to this there are several other minor changes, which end each section with the fist, chambered and prepared to attack or defend if needed. Traditionally the arm was withdrawn and not necessarily in a position to counterattack without changing the shape.

Sifu has also added a shifting or turning SNT where the movements themselves remain the same but are now down with a shift/turn. The emphasis’s is to learn how to deal with and exert the proper energy of each technique while providing additional training on shifting/turning.

IMHO, Wing Chun needs to be approached with an open mind. While it is fine to respect tradition and how it was taught in the past, one must also realize that training methods as well as our understanding of body mechanics has grown over the last few years. Just as athletes today train differently than their counterparts did 50 or even 100 years ago, Martial Artists must also adapt/evolve or die. The hard part is in making changes relative to our needs today without violating the basic tenants of our art. Also to consider is do you train for the sake of art of application? Whether you like to admit it, your end desired result will have an affect one whether you believe in adapting or evolving or not. As you may have guessed my approach is to attack once we have engaged

Just some things to stir the pot a bit more, As I said, I know some will consider any changes to be sacrilege. But, as I tell my students, in the end as long as I can go home I do not care what others think. I also tell them I cheat!! And I do

Peace,

Dave

[old jong]

Hey Dave!
You know that if you filmed yourself doing SLT and then played it backward...The differences would not show at all!...






































Just kidding!... Nice to hear from you!...

[reneritchie]

(Adapted from le 'net...)

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy,
it deosn't mttaer in waht lniaege of wnig cuhn you do
or waht oredr the fomrs are in,
the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the conpecpts are
all tehre.

The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll laren it
wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not fcous on ervey
dteail by istlef, but the stysem as a wlohe. Fcuknig amzanig huh?

[rubthebuddha]

last time we played the tape of dave doing snt backward, we could barely hear some chanting in the background. "satan" was the only word we could make out.

[rubthebuddha]

rene = silly ass, and that's why we like him.

seriously, though, what's with the impression of you-know-who?

[old jong]

[yuanfen]

Hendrik asks:

how should the next Evolution of SLT be?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some tinkering here and there by knowledgeable folks ok- which excludes a heck of a lot of people.

But for conscious "evolution" one first has to know what
that slt is and why it needs changing if at all.

[fa_jing]

Rene: pretty cool, mister!!


I myself have modified SLT, now the last section has me practicing my quick draw, then I drop onto one knee and fire an imaginary bazooka. I feel that these changes are necessary so that Wing Chun can continue to grow and develop in the modern world.

[Sihing73]

Hello Everyone,

I expected my comments to illicit some feedback. I must admit surprise to learn that you could hear the chanting in the background, it is supposed to be subliminal and not noticeable. I will work on that immediately. However, the chanting is really a message to your subconscious to send me money, as I need it with my large family.

I would agree that making change for the sake of change is never a good thing, seems like we’ve been down this road before Still, I challenge anyone to show me someone who does the SNT EXACTLY the same way as Yip Man or their own teacher. I also challenge anyone to show me someone who does the SNT the same now as when they first learned it. While there may be examples who fit this criteria I am willing to bet that they are few and certainly not the majority.

Wing Chun as a whole must evolve in order to address the needs of its practicianers today. Some have added a short stick form, others work with regular knives. There is a difference between the use and deployment of a folding knife and a fixed blade and there are slight adjustments to be made for the use of each. If Wing Chun was designed for combat then it must adapt and change to insure it is adequate for the type of combat which one may face. While some will argue that fighting methods have not changed all that much since the inception of Wing Chun, the fact is that the world has become a much smaller place making it more likely to encounter students of diverse arts. Does anyone really think that our Wing Chun ancestors ever faced a Capeiro (sp?) stylists?

IMHO, by making the SNT more applicable for combat one is evolving in line with the original ideas of the arts founders. Besides, we can’t even agree whether the forms where an integral part of the system from the start and it is known that Yip Many made modifications to the forms over the years. The dummy form is a great example of this, some have 140 moves, some 118 and some 108. While I mean no disrespect to Yip Mans memory, what makes it okay for him to make a change but not another Sifu today? Bottom line, if it works then it is relevant; if it does not then it is unnecessary. I would rather provide a method, which gives my students functionality in a quicker time than one, which requires more time but ends up in the same neighborhood.

If you are happy with you version of the SNT and it meets your needs then there may be no need to change it. However, if you find that you can shorten the process to understanding by making modifications and they are in line with the basic theories then be bold enough to check it out and see if it is a worthwhile effort. Just insure you have a strong foundation upon which to build.

Are we having fun yet?????

Peace,

Dave

BTW: I respect everyone’s right to their own opinion and approach and would not say that anyone else is wrong, I just believe that I have the same right to my own opinion as well

[Phenix]

Great posts!
Keep going.

[S.Teebas]

Bottom line, if it works then it is relevant; if it does not then it is unnecessary.

Hi Dave,

I disagree with this comment. I mean somthing could work for a 150kg roid monster...but not work for a 50kg woman. So which is more relevent?

What works for the smaller woman can work for the 150kg guy (if applied wiht the same mechanics), but not the other way around..... so which one is WC?

[yuanfen]

Notes on Daves post (snipped for brevity):

Wing Chun as a whole must evolve in order to address the needs of its practicianers today.

((Whatever that means....))

If Wing Chun was designed for combat then it must adapt and change to insure it is adequate for the type of combat which one may face.

((Sure- but wing chun has built in adjustments and the combatants excpect for height/weight increases still have two legs, two hands, one heart, head etc, one spinal column))

While some will argue that fighting methods have not changed all that much since the inception of Wing Chun, the fact is that the world has become a much smaller place making it more likely to encounter students of diverse arts.

((So? you still protect your center and attack theirs))

Does anyone really think that our Wing Chun ancestors ever faced a Capeiro (sp?) stylists?

((Some would be defeated because they would be too busy laughing!!))

founders. Besides, we can’t even agree whether the forms where an integral part of the system from the start and it is known that Yip Many made modifications to the forms over the years.

((A democratic bias. Ok for politics- what does it have to do with knowledge. Wing chun by las vegas judges, writers and audience polling??))

The dummy form is a great example of this, some have 140 moves, some 118 and some 108.

((So what-organizational schemes- not conceptual differeneces))

While I mean no disrespect to Yip Mans memory, what makes it okay for him to make a change but not another Sifu today?

((Because he was exceptional. Without him- chances are wing chun would be known- if at all-as a minor art))

Bottom line, if it works then it is relevant; if it does not then it is unnecessary.

((Works? Meaning-?? Points to the future- the great american mish mash arts-mma, jkd))

I would rather provide a method, which gives my students functionality in a quicker time than one, which requires more time but ends up in the same neighborhood.

((Dont know your neighborhood. Gunfu has spread fast and the wu sao or the reverse wu sau cabt stop a bullet or a good knife motion))

If you are happy with you version of the SNT and it meets your needs then there may be no need to change it.

((Thanks for your blessing sihing <vbg :-JOKING>
I will stick with the Kohinoor diamond- if only the Brit. Queen would return it,))))

However, if you find that you can shorten the process to understanding by making modifications and they are in line with the basic theories then be bold enough to check it out and see if it is a worthwhile effort.

Just insure you have a strong foundation upon which to build.

((Justa check point- right??))

Are we having fun yet?????

((Always. Mirth is healthy!!)) Joy Chaudhuri