Song vs Fang Song.

[Laughing Cow]

Hi.

Something to discuss for the IMA guys.

Does your style practice fang-song or song? And how do you understand the term?

I go first.

In my style we practice "Fang Song" (open and loose/relaxed).

Song, IMO, is often wrongly translated as relaxed when I think it should be looseness.

Fang (open) for us is another important concept, your joints should be open and "stretched".
Teacher always sez the difference between a person being fang or not is about is about 1cm in the shoulder joints (poorly translated)

Seeya.

[liangZhiCheng]

I'm Chinese, and though I'm not great at it, I do know some Cantonese(the language). Song means loose to me. For instance, you might use "song" when you say my shoe laces are too loose. Fang Song means let go, become loose. Thus, Fang Song is an action, becoming loose, Song is a state of looseness. Of course, not having any tones in the Fang, the Fang you're referring to might be another word And yes, I think openness is an important aspect as well, but I think it comes naturally if one is relaxed and practices opening the body in various ways (for example, the back during single whip)

[omarthefish]

I'm NOT Chinese . . . but my GF is! And she refuses to speak English with me just on principle. And basically, yeah. What he just said. As for you complaint about the tranlastion as 'relax'... I think that the word 'song' and the phrase 'fang song' are possibly the most over-fussed over words in the whole entire Chinese language. I would reverswe your understanding. From a martial arts perspective, 'loose' is NOT what you want. 'relaxed' is.

Let me try and explain myself.

We often colloquially say we need to 'loosen up' or 'keep loose' but really the goal is soft, supple, relaxed motion with power. There's elasticity and the infamous 'peng jin'. Relaxed doesn't mean limp as a wet noodle in English any more than it does in Chinese.

Looking at the terminology used in China to describe good power there is another word which could be translated as 'loose' but is always used in reference to ineffective power issuing. 'san' For you, liangZhiCheng, I mean as in, 'san kai' or even 'san shou' It is often contrasted with 'zheng jin' (as in 'zhengti'-a complete unit; all encompassing) Only if one has 'zheng jin', full body connection, can one issue power. One must 'fang song', relax, to move quick and to hit hard but, at impact or even during a push, one must not 'san jin';diesperse power, 'loose'. disconnected.

I think there is no need to find any special translation of 'song' or 'fang song' at all. It's not magic.

[Laughing Cow]

Thanks, for the replies.

Not being a chinese speaker myself I have to go with I read from a variety of sources.

We often colloquially say we need to 'loosen up' or 'keep loose' but really the goal is soft, supple, relaxed motion with power. There's elasticity and the infamous 'peng jin'. Relaxed doesn't mean limp as a wet noodle in English any more than it does in Chinese.

I am in full agreement and this also is what my sifu sez.


He translates Fang Song as follows:
"Open and peaceful relaxation".

Cheers.

[bamboo_ leaf]

If you had a whip, and whipped it all parts of it would really be relaxed only preserving the shape of the whip. The momentum would easily pass though it till the very end.

If you tied a knot in the whip the momentum would get stuck there, if some how the end or middle started to move of its own accord again there would be no transference.

So for taiji, tension, any tension tends to block the ability to produce any type of inner momentum. This the reason for song.

The confusion I think comes from the idea of peng, and the requirement for song.

Using the whip we can see peng in its ability to maintain its shape and still remain soft.
If some how the whip lost its structural integrity its ability to transmit momentum would also be lost, this would be collapsing.

[omarthefish]

Nice analogy. I brought up how 'peng' and 'song' both together cabn be confusing and I think your whip metaphore helps a lot. Now if I could only think how to come up with a metaphore also encompassing 'ding', 'tan', and 'chan' at the same time as well...Well maybe as I can't really DO it I'm at a loss to describe it.