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Thread: How do you deal with a boxer's hopping?

  1. #46
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    Do you wear a cup to protect your ears?
    Depends on how drunk I am.

    Gloves are multi purposefull... gives wrist support as well as keeping the hands from breaking, as well as keeping your face from being broken. I dont know why the hell you guys are arguing about it... seems kinda obvious to me.
    Yeah ******, so stop making sense.

    E-fist, I can do all my moves with the gloves on as well. I'm glad you can too. In real life though, it's harder to get the gloves into the spaces you want them. That's all.

    We've already had the discussion on how hands aren't for primary control, didn't we?
    "In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell

    "Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli

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  2. #47
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    Crimson, Shaolin-Do and Water Dragon. Just read your responses. Funny as $hit

  3. #48
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    MP agreed!

    Wow, this one actually ended in a multiple tie with everyone laughing and in good spirits ... mark the calander.

  4. #49
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    Exactly, good discussion and spirit!

    LOL, E-F, indeed, Water Dragon's answer got me laughing my azz off the chair
    Risk 0 doesn't exist.

  5. #50
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    break their timing. With internal boxing I used to fight rooted (flat) but now Aikido has taught me that moving is the way (although the underweighted principle is the same).

  6. #51
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    Thumbs up

    Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
    Grab his paws, tell him in a firm voice "down" or "off" and then place his feet on the ground. If he bounces or hops up again, repeat. If he stays on the floor, tell him "good dog! Good down!" and scratch his ears.

    This works for other breeds as well.
    You deserve a prize for that one!....


    Here it is...A wonderful deer butt for your kicking convenience at home or elsewhere.Don't leave home without it!...
    Last edited by old jong; 09-19-2003 at 02:29 PM.

  7. #52

    Re: How do you deal with a boxer's hopping?

    Originally posted by IronFist
    A lot of CMA use stances that are flat and stable. They don't hop around like boxers. It seems that from a locomotion perspective, hopping better prepares you for sudden movement
    I think there's alot of different factors in play here: flat-footed versus ball-of-the-foot; depth and width of stance; methods of footwork; and methods of bodywork (eg. what someone percieves as a boxer's "hop" might be an upper body "bob" without any compromise of the stance).

    I'm not sure which aspect you're talking about, and it certainly wouldn't be accurate to describe each of those factors as a CMA-Boxing continuum (eg. some CMA styles have much deeper stances than boxers, some have more shallow).

    Regarding the flat-footed factor alone, I think it is possible, though not the norm, to develop a high level of mobility with this stance (eg. as in xingyi and bagua). So if you asked someone with this pespective how they justify giving up mobility, they might not understand the question. From this perspective, "rooting" or "stability" should not imply, in the least, "immobility." Along these lines, you could interpret the internal art "law" against "double-weighting" to mean: at any moment you should be able to move in any direction without an adjustment of your current stance.

    This is not to say that these training methods would give someone exactly the skills a boxer has. It is quite clear that many good boxers are very excellent at a certain kind of mobility. I think though, returning to the first point, that it would be incorrect to reduce this to a single element (eg. the angle of their ankles and weight placement on the foot). Rather, I think everything from their footwork to bodywork to handwork is specialized to capitalize on this certain kind of mobility.

    From this point of view, one would certainly be advised to avoid facing the boxer's forte with one's own foible. This is not to say, though, that one is less mobile than a boxer; but only to say, as we allready knew, that one shouldn't box a boxer.

    Returning to the point of different kinds of mobility, to clarify with a simple example: one could say that an Olympic style fencer is an extremely mobile martial artist. This would be true, but it's quite clear that this is a very specific kind of mobility (eg. it is limited to one axis).

  8. #53
    One thing I didn’t see mentioned was timing. Boxes skip rope for endurance and to keep them light on the feet. Remember in a ring if you’re caught flat footed you’ll receive the full impact from a blow. Up in the air you still have mobility and if your hit the floating center tends to allow the impact to move you instead of being absorbed into you.

    The aim of CMA should be to close and end things as quickly as possible. Not size up your opponent or exchange blows trying to find the weakness.

    These ideas are ideas for the ring, in the street either you fight or get out of there as quickly as you can. Not much of an in-between.

    Don’t box a boxer. There tough and train to receive impacts, as well as give em.

    The hoping or jumping comes from habit, hitting the speed bag, working with a partner they develop timing habits. Different ideas for a different game.
    enjoy life

  9. #54
    Last edited by turbo76; 06-02-2004 at 12:56 PM.

  10. #55
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    Put me in the "bouncing is a really bad description" camp.

    There's not much vertical movement going on there. There's a shuffling (thanks Fatherdog). A shifting of weight between feet. A constant low level of movement.

    Personally, I like that type of footwork or stance because it's generally quicker (in my experience) to shuffle and then drop into a rooted position for punching combinations, etc. than it is to stand rooted and then come up into a more mobile position. Gravity on my side and all.

    That said, most traditional footwork systems that I've worked with didn't advocate rising up from a rooted position, instead maintaining that low posture and shifting stance.


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    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  11. #56
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    One thing I didn’t see mentioned was timing. Boxes skip rope for endurance and to keep them light on the feet. Remember in a ring if you’re caught flat footed you’ll receive the full impact from a blow. Up in the air you still have mobility and if your hit the floating center tends to allow the impact to move you instead of being absorbed into you.

    Uhhhh.... no? You get hit in the air, you get knocked over. Probably lose the round. You also can't punch. I was taught never to have my feet leave the ground any more than absolutely necessary for movement.

    The hoping or jumping comes from habit, hitting the speed bag, working with a partner they develop timing habits.
    Also no. Most boxers don't hop or jump around.

    The aim of CMA should be to close and end things as quickly as possible. Not size up your opponent or exchange blows trying to find the weakness.
    This is also the goal of boxers. However, it's not so simple to do so there's a lot of give and take.
    "In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell

    "Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli

    "A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli

  12. #57
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    I wholeheartedly agree with Merry.

    I always HATED these lil hoppings ever since I started boxing...I don't really see the point...this whole "you got more mobility that way" issue just isn't convincing for me. How could you get more mobility by throwing yourself in some up and down rythm versus having your feet on the ground all the time? I mean come on, when you're up you have to wait for gravity to pull you down, why not stay down in the first place? I know of some peeps who took the habit of doing everything in their daily lives with the intention to be able to just run instantly. Going to the bathroom, washing the dishes, the guy's mental focus was "I have to get my spirit and body in a state where I can just run instantly if I choose to". NOW that, to me, seems much more profitable than wasting energy and rythm hopping up and down.

    I never understood why you shouldn't get all the mobility you need with your feet flat on the ground...
    Risk 0 doesn't exist.

  13. #58
    if you see a boxer hopping , he's an arse. i reiterate that its more of a shifting weight thing than "hopping"
    I personally disagree with being static, although theres a time where that might be necessary. maybe if you are up against a static opponent this works fine , but if you have an opponent thats moving around alot and competent in side stepping , its going to be difficult on your transition being "stable" in a static stance.
    I suggest that as a fighter one should strive to be adaptable to all situations. it might seem convenient to say "oh he's bouncing around so i'm gonna sweep him" , but how many of you have actually pulled this off against someone who knows what he's doing. maybe if you're facing an untrained boxer thats oblivious to the fact that leg sweeps are an option.
    I doubt that anyone using thier heads while fighting will fall for easy traps, especially if they are experienced. do not underestimate any artform, or technique as contrary to yours as it may seem.
    peace.

  14. #59
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    Boxers call this hopping motion "Happy Feet" as it is very common to newbies. No where have I seen this phenomenon more common than martial artists competing in point-sparring competitions.. Poor fundamentals.

    Boxers shuffle, glide, pivot, etc. see a trend? A boxer's feet never come more than a fraction of an inch off the ground. You won't find a striker with more "root" than a boxer, because the rules have removed his fear of kicks, takedowns..

    Gloves are multi purposefull... gives wrist support as well as keeping the hands from breaking, as well as keeping your face from being broken. I dont know why the hell you guys are arguing about it... seems kinda obvious to me.
    Many false things here..

    Gloves do not support the wrists. Handwraps & tape do.

    Gloves are not multi purpose. they serve one function. to protect the knuckles and thumb so that the wearer can keep punching longer than without them.
    Anyone who knows the history of boxing knows this, as well as those who watched the early UFC matches - extended bare-knuckle punching = broken hands, even when you know which target to hit (jaw) it's not like he's holding still..
    "keeping your face from being broken" - Isn't that the whole idea of the sport, to smash the other guy up as quickly as possible? Since when did you care about his face so much?
    That's why we wear headgear & a mouthpiece.

    The incredible amount of disinformation you'll find amongst traditional martial artists is staggering.. Frankly I do not blame many of you as you are simply doing or repeating as you've been instructed, but I can gather that I'd be an optimist to hope that you would research, question, and act on time tested, factual principles and evidence vs. blind faith.

    "you should punch with the first two knuckles of your fist"

    "punching bare handed is more powerful"

    -these statements are simply ridiculous. They show the above mentality and attitude.

  15. #60
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    Gloves are not multi purpose. they serve one function. to protect the knuckles and thumb so that the wearer can keep punching longer than without them. Anyone who knows the history of boxing knows this,
    I know almost nothing about boxing history, and I don't doubt that heavy gloves protect the hands, but if that were there sole purpose, then wouldn't boxing gloves be overkill? Couldn't you protect your hands just as well with much smaller and lighter gloves?

    And isn't it difficult to get a sanctioned fight with lighter gloves? I remember lkfmdc talking about Black Taoist's failure to get sanctioning when he wanted to fight with his palms. Is this because they are afraid BT will break his hands, or because they fear open palms will cause too much damage?

    I'm not trying to be a dlck here. Just looking for a deeper explanation.
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