How do you deal with a boxer's hopping?

[ShaolinTiger00]

MK,

then wouldn't boxing gloves be overkill? Couldn't you protect your hands just as well with much smaller and lighter gloves?

I'll do my best to explain. you've got to cover the knuckles and the bigger the guy the more padding he'll need to cover those meathooks. You've got to cover the thumb and the entirety of the fingers so that they do not get snagged, bent, broken etc..

now you have to secure this padding to your arm and this must is best done with a cuff that extends past the wrist to the forearm.

Can you see how oz. add up?

A grappler's MMA glove is 4 oz. of course we all know how spartan and quickly striking is done with. these guys are not boxers. they are not going at each other for 12 rounds with only fisticuffs..

you're average bag glove is between 9-12 oz. and after an evening of pounding mitts, a heavy bag, etc. your hands still feel sore (and you're got wraps on!). now add to this the power of a professional?

Also padding is a bit of insurance as well. these guys are getting paid big bucks to fight. nobody wants to see a fight get stopped short due to a broken hand. (speaking of which didn't Mickey Ward break his wrapped, gloved hand in the last gatti/ward fight?)

and of course if we're talking about amateurs? hell we're going to put even more padding on those gloves!

So MK, maybe it might be a tad "overkill" in the 16-20 oz.+, that overkill keeps a young fighter healthy so that he can practice and fight day after day. - part of the brilliance of combat sports.

[MasterKiller]

I see where you're coming from. I didn't really think about them wanting to prolong the fight to pacify the fans. You're right. I get ****ed when a boxing match ends in 2 rounds.

[Shaolin-Do]

"and after an evening of pounding mitts, a heavy bag, etc. your hands still feel sore (and you're got wraps on!). "

Eh? I never go at my bag with gloves on, unless I accidentally cut my hand on the d@mn "everlast" label. Hands dont ever really hurt afterwards either.... Never ever wrap my fists to hit the bag. Takes away from developing wrist strength. (+ chances are I wont be wearing wraps in a fight.)

[ShaolinTiger00]

SD,

Takes away from developing wrist strength. (+ chances are I wont be wearing wraps in a fight.)

You're not the first traditional artist who has made that comment, but like your previous statement, it has many false statements.

You imply that is takes away from wrist strength but the truth is that boxers wrists are probably twice as strong as yours for several reasons.
1. The hands are their only weapon. and its probably safe that they throw many more punches than a martial artist who is punching, kicking, kneeing, elbowing, trapping, grappling etc..

2. Enormous amount of resistance training. speed bag, double end bag, focus mitts, heavy bag, sparring. - only their warm up (shadowboxing) doesn't involve striking an object.

3. Again because he is supporting his wrist throughout training he is able to train safely and return tomorrow and work just as hard with just as much resistance.

4. There should be no "wrist" in a punch. the wraps and cuff of the glove actually deter wrist motion and develop good technique.

5. The wrap gives you compression and stability. the glove gives you padding. the result = a harder punch.

[IronFist]

^ it's kind of like why I don't wear wrist wraps or lifting belts when I lift weights. Wrist wraps (the weight lifting kind) kind of disengage the forearm muscle and if used exclusively will basically get you to the point where you can lift more weight than your forearms and grip can deal with. What's the point of that?

Same thing with a belt. Wearing a lifting belt when you squat helps to support your back. In other words, it prevents your abs and spinal erector muscles from doing their job. If used exclusively you will get to the point where you can squat way more with a belt than without.

Now if you're training for strength you can use in the real world, why would you want to do this? You're not going to use wrist wraps or a belt when you have to move something in real life, so why train that way? If anything, you will probably hurt yourself cuz say you're used to squatting 500lbs with a belt; if you go to pick up something that weighs 500lbs your legs will be able to do it but your back will not be able to deal with the stress because your back isn't used to that much weight on its own cuz you use a belt, remember?

Wow, that's a long run on sentence.

Anyway, it's the same thing with punching with wrist wraps. If you train to hit a heavy bag with wrist wraps, they support your wrist. You become stronger and get used to hitting very hard with wrist wraps on, and the wraps are preventing your wrist from becoming conditioned (supporting the hand). Then when you get in a fight for real, with no wraps, you throw a hard punch with all the power you've developed, but when it makes contact with the other guy your unsupported wrists can't take the force and you get injured.

Make sense?

[yenhoi]

No. You are wrong.

1) Technique, Sensitivity, Timing, and Mobility.
2) Practice
3) Practice all the time, something you cant do if you dont wrap.
4) Practice without wraps too, silly.
5) Practice with many types of gloves and wraps.
6) Practice with the glove you will use in competition.

If you punch someone correctly without gloves on you will probably not break your hand.

If you punch incorrectly with gloves on, you have a much, much lower chance of breaking the hand.

[omarthefish]

I've gone back and forth with the gloves issue. Basically, put the **** things on. Anyone who never wears them is just not hitting the bag as hard as he might with them on. A couple reasons:

1. Without them, you semiconciously hold back to just slightly less than what will hurt your hands.

2. Without them, in order to protect your hands and wrist, you must make a tight fist which creates more tension in the arm and you punch weaker. Handwraps combined with gloves put your hands in the position always talked about by IMA. You get all the looseness of a palm strike but with the stuctural integrity and angles of attacfk of a regular punch.

It's worth it to train with only wraps and canvas gloves occasionally but no glove bag workouts are pretty counterproductive if your starting to get real power.

[IronFist]

Ok. You're only as strong as your weakest link. If you're using some sort of artifical support, well, that's going to be your limiting point when you're not using it. In other words, if you don't consciously hold back power without it, you run a higher risk of damaging yourself.

I'm not talking about gloves. Gloves are fine, especially if they prevent your hands from getting scratched up. I'm talking about writs supports or anything else that provides artifical support. That would include gloves WITH wrist support, but not regular bag gloves.

[joedoe]

I agree with IronFist

[Serpent]

So do I.

And this:

2. Without them, in order to protect your hands and wrist, you must make a tight fist which creates more tension in the arm and you punch weaker. Handwraps combined with gloves put your hands in the position always talked about by IMA. You get all the looseness of a palm strike but with the stuctural integrity and angles of attacfk of a regular punch.

is just hogwash.

[Serpent]

And as for the protection thing, if you get punched hard with a bare fist somewhere around the upper orbit, for example, you will almost certainly get cut there. Get punched several times with a gloved fist in the same spot and you are much less likely to get a cut. So how can gloves be purely for the protection of the hand? Common bloody sense, people. Gloves protect the hand of the puncher and the face of the punchee, varying depending on the ability of the puncher and where the person is getting hit, how they roll with punches, etc.

Now, when it comes to rocking the brain inside from the transferred impact of a punch, then potentially a gloved fist can do more damage as the surface strike is cushioned and the impact can potentially cause more shock inside the head.

[Vash]

D@mn skippy.

[omarthefish]

Which part is hogwash?

A tightly clenched fist slows down your arm?

You don't believe your hand with wraps inside a boxing glove is in a different position from a bare fist?

You don't think that a regular punch has better structural integrity than a palm strike?

You don't think the angles of attack between a palm strike and a closed fist punch are different?

You think it has no relevance to IMA?

You think making a parallel between the kind of punching power boxers get with wraps and gloves and the ideals expressed in certain IMA styles is ridiculous?

[omarthefish]

btw,

I had to go back and re-read the whole previous page because somehow I missed when the topic changed from hopping to gloves. AND was confused what you were replying to in reference to gloves protecting hands vs. face . . . whatever. My post has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with THAT silly topic. ...o.k. a little but only VERY tangentially.

To make it really clear:

THE IDEA THAT GLOVES PROTECT YOUR HANDS MORE THAN HIS FACE IS PATENTLY RIDICULOUS!!!!

I have run into this confusion before because you definately hit harder wrapped up. That is NOT the same as saying you cause more damage.

[joedoe]

They are all correct statements, however Iron Fist stated that if you always train with support equipment, you will screw yourself up if you use your technique without the support equipment.