!!!TMA on video!!!

[Merryprankster]

non intuitive ways of using your body for power generation.

Something I learned in grappling is that the instinctive answer is very frequently WRONG.

A great example of what we were talking about before though is a sort of power generation that WD was talking about in his Xing Yi training. It looks almost precisely like the same movement wrestlers use to snap people over their body. I'll have to check, when I can, but it looks almost exactly the same.

Different purpose, almost identical motion. I'm willing to keep an open mind and deal with the idea that it may NOT be, but it sure looks like it to me.

[Oso]

MP, imho, the xing yi spine compression and the wrestler's snap up are similar enough to call the same. Differences only lying in your aforementioned emphasis and training.

[KC Elbows]

Lately I've been thinking that style is more about induction into fighting arts, and that, once you're talking about people who are trained fighters, who fight and really know their stuff, you are almost universally talking about people who do whatever skill set they've focused on with the minimum of effort(but appropriate power).

I think that's why, in terms of chinese martial arts, the internal arts are commonly said to take longer- since their goal is the relaxed confident not mastered by fear state that usually takes a little time to reach, they aren't looked at as having any skill til they achieve that, even if they can muscle their way through fighting early on.

The problem is, its hard for someone still at the beginner's stage to recognize those universals you're talking about, so they're kind of a slave to the experts at that point. So they're almost doomed to learning some bias early on, and later carrying that bias as a weakness in their fighting and worldview, unless they manage to never train under narrow minded teachers.

And of course, there's plenty of people who make styles that are "scientifically based" and such, but even (maybe especially) they have a hard time defining the universal motions.

And its hard not to pick up bias. Quality control between martial arts schools is an oxymoron. I've yet to see an art where the good schools came anywhere close in number to the bad schools, though for a time, bjj sounds like it had its golden era. Guys who earn the right to teach often don't teach as well as they were taught, some teach who have no business teaching, some are passable teachers, and some are passable practitioners. Combine this with the number of passable practitioners there will be, and any style will soon find less good schools than bad. So we get people judging off of their experiences of other schools, and if the viewer's school works hard, they will certainly see the number of schools who do not, and those who don't even come close, and it's easy to say "this style sucks" based off of there being no serious schools of it nearby where people fight. I constantly tell students at my school "don't judge, just pay attention to the guys who are good," but it's not really effective.

Anyway, my point being, I think learning martial arts is going to involve style at the start, and later lose it to an extent once a few of those universals are understood. But I think that style has its uses, because it focuses fighting into a small number of tactics and techniques, keeps it simple and all. Sure, the parts are probably elsewhere, but the particular combo of those parts is often unique.

Sorry for the babble in the middle there. Turrettes and all.

[Merryprankster]

I've yet to see an art where the good schools came anywhere close in number to the bad schools, though for a time, bjj sounds like it had its golden era.

Hmm. I'd say we're still in the golden era. There are still only a handful of blackbelts in the U.S. when compared to other MA's, and the fellows who are ranked in BJJ and teach are generally under no illusion about their skills thanks to the competition element.

I'd also say that because there is a strong competition element to BJJ, you will always be able to determine which schools are producing good products, just like wrestling, Judo and boxing.

So, while the number of schools will likely increase and many are likely to be not so hot, there will also be a large number of very good, easily recognizable and reachable schools.

Not sure if that makes any sense.

[KC Elbows]

Makes perfect sense.

At the same time, if competition were a requirement, all judo schools would be good, but they aren't. Some areas have no one to compete with, some schools squelch competition because squelching competition is a sure way to make sure your students won't figure out for a while if you don't know crap. Point being, there are more lame bjj schools than there were 3 years ago, there'll be more three years from now, and that number will probably rise faster than the increase in good bjj schols, cause that takes real work and all.

However, you're probably right, competition probably mitigates that well.