New SD Videos at Shaolin Center

[fa_jing]

Hey I just finished the thread - I would like to compliment Shaolinarab for his last three posts - well written and to the point, something which after 11 pages to this thread, it would be nice to see more of.

And SD confirmed and summarized, that most of the "core" of Shaolin-Do is in the short forms and sparring techniques. This makes more sense than "no core" or "our core is everything."
If this "core" is then used to "flavor" the other forms that are studied, than so much the better for the improvement of the student within the core system.

It is true that an accomplished Martial Artist can gain something out of (even) superficial studying of a form. For instance I, with 3-4 years training in CMA, can follow along to a Hung Gar or Mantis form, and get something out of it. I can recognize a few techniques, not all of them, and I can get a bit of flavor. I would think that there is a point of diminishing returns with such an approach, however.

Furthermore, I'm concerned about developing the basics, since those of us who compete know that basics win the fight. I'm afraid that with an emphasis on learning a large # of forms, this could fall by the wayside.

There's different approaches to the learning process. Fabulous lineage claims aside, I'm sure that Sin The learned in a manner very similar to the one that he is teaching. A sort of forced volume approach. And I'm sure that he developed a core set of techniques and was able to improve this with the study of a lot of different forms.

We should all recognize that there are different ways to approach the MA. Some CMA artists feel that one system is enough. Others find that 2 or 3 systems is the way to go. For Shaolin types (traditional, wu shu, Shaolin Do, etc.) alot of forms are to be learned. Some styles do well with no forms at all.

The marketing stuff in Shaolin-Do, the phony history and claims of mastership, etc. does tick me off. But I would say that this is fairly common in the world of TMA, and that I have to commend Sin The on his commercial success.

It's not traditional Chinese Martial Arts in my book, however that doesn't mean that it's not a valid approach. Not the one that I would choose for myself, but I don't see major barriers to someone else being able to make it work.

[shaolinarab]

Thanks for fairly examining my view. you're right...one thing about these daamn threads is that there can be a good discussion going until people start detracting from the subject for several wasted pages.

i'm gonna that you can appreciate our sense of a core training before we engage in a myriad of forms. you hit the nail on the head with what you said about being able to gain something from other forms based on your fundamental training.

just to keep the subject on topic, if the reader wants to start with my first post , go to this page:
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...5&pagenumber=9

happy training...

[Fu-Pow]

I have to hand it to you SD guys, you don't give up.

If you've learned anything from your training perhaps you've learned tenacity.

But I feel that you've failed to adequately answer many of the questions that have been posed to you.

There are answers but they are in form of ramblings and not very straightforward.

If you guys are happy with your training...then fine...so be it.

But I hope that through this forum a seed of doubt has been planted in your mind and that you will dig for answers to some of the questions that have been posed to you by the MA community at large.

I would recommend that you all pick up a copy of the "Sword Polishers Record" by Adam Hsu.

I was thumbing through this book last night before bed.

Here is a well respected master who has trained in many styles of martial arts and yet he continuously warns against doing just that.

I encourage you all to read this for some perspective. So you realize it is not just some MA geeks on an internet forum telling you this stuff.

P.S.

I've trained CLF and Chen Taiji for about 7 years. I spent my first year of training in Lam Family Hung Ga and some Northern Shaolin. I also have some brief experience in Tae Kwon Do and Aikido.

I believe Serpent studies CLF also.

[Golden Tiger]

Well gentleman (and ladies too), I think that this debate has been settled. We (SD'ers) love what we do, period. It should be apparent that some of the things that is very important to you (anti-SD) is not at the top of our list. We choose SD for what we believed was right for us just as you all did with you own respective systems. As shown in this thread, there is a vast amount of information that the posters posess so instead of bickering all day, lets put our knowledge to a resourceful use.

It has been a pleasure getting to know each and everyone of you.
I think that this has been one of the most civilized slam fest that I have seen.

now.....can't we all just get along

[Golden Tiger]

Well gentleman (and ladies too), I think that this debate has been settled. We (SD'ers) love what we do, period. It should be apparent that some of the things that is very important to you (anti-SD) is not at the top of our list. We choose SD for what we believed was right for us just as you all did with you own respective systems. As shown in this thread, there is a vast amount of information that the posters posess so instead of bickering all day, lets put our knowledge to a resourceful use.

It has been a pleasure getting to know each and everyone of you.
I think that this has been one of the most civilized slam fest that I have seen.

now.....can't we all just get along

[Ralphie]

If you guys are happy with your training...then fine...so be it.

I think that is the point with the SD guys. That is, they are happy with their training, and what SD supplies. If you go to one of their schools this is evident. I disagree with almost every aspect of the methods of SD. However, each person is looking for something different, and obviously many people find "it" at a SD kwoon. What's wrong with that? There's no doubt in my mind that CLF is a superior ma. You should be content with that.

[themeecer]

There's no doubt in my mind that CLF is a superior ma.

And we're the ones called arrogant. What does CLF stand for anyway?

[shaolinarab]

choy lay fut

[Ralphie]

And we're the ones called arrogant. What does CLF stand for anyway?

Choy Lay Fut, and I don't study it. However, I've been lucky enough to meet a high level practitioner, and witnessed his skill. I've known high level practitioners of SD; I've seen and experienced the difference. Sorry if you don't like my observation, but I'm not putting you down just expressing a belief/opinion based on actual experience.

[GreyMystik]

clf = choy lay fut, a quite famous and effective martial art system which originated in southern china.
i'm surpised you haven't heard about it... it's real popular in hong kong

[Fu-Pow]

Choy Lay Fut, thought to be the 3rd most popular southern style of kung fu in the world.

(The first being Wing Chun and second being Hung Ga.)

Perhaps there are a few things for you yet to learn meecer. 20 years in MA's and you've never heard of CLF?

[themeecer]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
Choy Lay Fut, thought to be the 3rd most popular southern style of kung fu in the world.

(The first being Wing Chun and second being Hung Ga.)

Perhaps there are a few things for you yet to learn meecer. 20 years in MA's and you've never heard of CLF?

Oh heck, I will be the first to tell you I have tons to learn. Reason I haven't heard of them, besides what I have read on these boards (I didn't recognize the abbreviation) is that my past 20 years have been spent on studying my art, I never had the time, nor do I really now, to be spend hours on the web looking up other martial arts. I'd rather spend my time first on normal life and secondly on training, not on becoming an arm chair martial artist.

Wing chun is the most popular?!?! I would think not as much as I've seen people dog them on these boards. I give them their props for what I have seen of them. They have very nice hand speed.

[GreyMystik]

well in this case, we don't mean popular as in "well-liked" as much as popular meaning "widespread"

[Ralphie]

Oh heck, I will be the first to tell you I have tons to learn. Reason I haven't heard of them, besides what I have read on these boards (I didn't recognize the abbreviation) is that my past 20 years have been spent on studying my art, I never had the time, nor do I really now, to be spend hours on the web looking up other martial arts. I'd rather spend my time first on normal life and secondly on training, not on becoming an arm chair martial artist.

It is traditional for practitioners of different styles to visist, study, train, and fight each other. This is a widely accepted in Chinese Martial Arts. It is actually not traditional to segregrate one's art and self from the rest of the martial world. No need to surf the web for info, reach out to your KF brethren and your KF will probably get better (my opionion anyway).

[First-Chevalier]

Originally posted by Ralphie


I think that is the point with the SD guys. That is, they are happy with their training, and what SD supplies. If you go to one of their schools this is evident. I disagree with almost every aspect of the methods of SD. However, each person is looking for something different, and obviously many people find "it" at a SD kwoon. What's wrong with that? There's no doubt in my mind that CLF is a superior ma. You should be content with that.

This is what I'm talking about. This is a philisophical choice concerning the MA's. You believe what you want about your art of choice as do we. Nothing wrong with that, and it's what makes discussions like this go round. It's also what makes the MA's grow and change.