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Thread: New SD Videos at Shaolin Center

  1. #16
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    try right-clicking on it and saving it to your desktop. then play it in winamp or windows media player. funny how one guy complains about streaming and when it can be finally downloaded, you have trouble!
    You need to install a DIVX player to watch those down-loadable videos from Shaolin Center correctly.
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  2. #17
    Just watched the last clip and it looks like he is a new blackbelt. One because of age and secondly because of his technique. He looks like he just learned that form. I keep hearing northern mantis on this thread, who says this is northern and not southern? I don't know where that exact form is from and don't know the differences between the two schools.
    themeecer actually shares a lot of the passion that Bruce Lee had about adopting techniques into your own way of 'expressing yourself.'
    -shaolinarab
    (Nicest thing ever said about me on these boards.)

  3. #18
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    I don't know where that exact form is from and don't know the differences between the two schools.
    I'm pretty sure that Southern mantis doesn't use the "hook."
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  4. #19
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    7* has little to no use of the "mantis hook hands"...
    "In choosing your dwelling, know how to keep to the ground.
    In cultivating your mind, know how to dive in the hidden depths.
    In dealing with others, know how to be gentle and kind.
    In speaking, know how to keep your words.
    In governing, know how to maintain order.
    In transacting business, know how to be efficient.
    In making a move, know how to choose the right moment.
    If you do not strive with others, you will be free from blame."
    -Lao Tzu, Tao Teh Ching
    An eye for an eye leaves the world blind.

  5. #20
    Ok does 7*=southern? Are we sure there are only 2 schools of thought for mantis? I know the mantis forms I have seen in our system are not all uniform, some look highly different from each other. I like the form in question here, it builds great leg strength it has a ton of kicks. Great for endurance.
    themeecer actually shares a lot of the passion that Bruce Lee had about adopting techniques into your own way of 'expressing yourself.'
    -shaolinarab
    (Nicest thing ever said about me on these boards.)

  6. #21
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    SD,...How much 7* have you practiced??

    No,..it wasn't southern even though they do maintain a rounded back similar to the guy in the video...& No, it does not look to be northern either; However, it appears to be more northern stylisticly than southern.

    It looks to be someones iterpretation of a mantis practitioner from a video-game.

    Themercer, Norther & Southern Mantis styles are very distinctly different.
    Last edited by BeiTangLang; 10-01-2003 at 09:02 AM.
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  7. #22
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    "SD,...How much 7* have you practiced??"
    lol. youve met me, you know how much. The above information is off of what you told me as well. Saw you lurking, figured youd jump in the conversation.

    hehe... check your pm's in a minute.
    "In choosing your dwelling, know how to keep to the ground.
    In cultivating your mind, know how to dive in the hidden depths.
    In dealing with others, know how to be gentle and kind.
    In speaking, know how to keep your words.
    In governing, know how to maintain order.
    In transacting business, know how to be efficient.
    In making a move, know how to choose the right moment.
    If you do not strive with others, you will be free from blame."
    -Lao Tzu, Tao Teh Ching
    An eye for an eye leaves the world blind.

  8. #23
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    We use the hook quite a bit,...it just doesn't look like the hook people are used to seeing,....I remember saying this to you,...not that we never use it. Anyway,...
    How many identities does a Troll need?
    Didn't think I knew did you??
    I know a lot of things.
    You won't like me in person either.
    Confused?? Don't be.
    LOL!

  9. #24
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    Ahh... Apologies for the misquotation. Sometimes all the stupid things i did in high school kick around my brain.
    "In choosing your dwelling, know how to keep to the ground.
    In cultivating your mind, know how to dive in the hidden depths.
    In dealing with others, know how to be gentle and kind.
    In speaking, know how to keep your words.
    In governing, know how to maintain order.
    In transacting business, know how to be efficient.
    In making a move, know how to choose the right moment.
    If you do not strive with others, you will be free from blame."
    -Lao Tzu, Tao Teh Ching
    An eye for an eye leaves the world blind.

  10. #25
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    sd folks (or anyone else that cares to chime in)-

    what are the different systems of mantis that we offer? i know there is white monkey, seven star, plum flower, secret door...thats all that i have heard. are there others that we teach, and does anyone know which systems our different forms come from? that would be really interesting to know. i love the mantis stuff! master schaefer has a mantis class that mirrors the training that grandmaster sin taught out in the seminars of complete mantis training. he always rounds it out with a new form! the last one was the yin yang mantis two man set...that form is great!

    Thanks

    Ben

  11. #26
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    Erm... I think the majority of our forms are 7*.
    Ex; White monkey exits cave
    white monkey steals peach
    bung bo
    penetrating hammer fist
    ect...
    "In choosing your dwelling, know how to keep to the ground.
    In cultivating your mind, know how to dive in the hidden depths.
    In dealing with others, know how to be gentle and kind.
    In speaking, know how to keep your words.
    In governing, know how to maintain order.
    In transacting business, know how to be efficient.
    In making a move, know how to choose the right moment.
    If you do not strive with others, you will be free from blame."
    -Lao Tzu, Tao Teh Ching
    An eye for an eye leaves the world blind.

  12. #27
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    My criticisms of Sin The's form. BTW, it's nice to finally actually see him perform so that SDers can not use the excuse "Well, he's not a very good student." :

    1) It's generally very stiff. Sin The is very ripped but more in a body builder way. If you look at most Chinese kung fu masters they are quite scrawny but they are internally quite strong because their strength comes from spiral movement (ie tendons.) (BTW, the greatest argument for putting on muscle is to create protection against strikes more than anything.)

    2) It's lacks whole body movement. There are many parts of the form where he is only moving his arm and/or hand. Real Chinese kung fu should center on movement of the waist (the area between the lowest rib and the pelvic bones.)

    3) He lifts his elbow up. A big no, no and definitely not indicative of 7* praying mantis.

    4) He is using his mantis "hooks" stiffly so it looks like he can only poke and not grab.

    5) He leans very far back when he side kicks which is more indicative of Tae Kwon Do and Karate then of Chinese Kung fu where the body is usually kept more upright.

    6) It lacks extension. Northern Praying mantis is a northern kung fu style and in Northern styles there is usually an emphasis on full extension.

    I'm not an expert on Mantis but I have had a class mate who was a master of Northern praying mantis.

    Generally, I would say that seeing this form supports what I have already said. That Shaolin-Do is kempo masquerading as Kung Fu.

    If you were to compare this form to a "real" Mantis masters form I believe the differences would become readily evident.

    And this is the biggest problem I see with Shaolin Do. They are teaching things that they are not qualified to teach.

  13. #28
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    Although I have my own opinions about this whole thing, I'd like to approach it from a more stylistic point of view, and mainly coming from basic principles that are found in CMA, such as unified body movement (six harmonies, 7 stars, silk reeling, etc), types of ging generation, and actual form structure.

    A good friend of mine was a northern and 7 star mantis practitioner and sifu, and the main thing that i noticed was a differentiation in structure from the lower body to the upper body-mainly in that the upper body was the "mantis" and the lower body was very lively with "monkey" footwork. I've had the opportunity to see a good amount of Shaolin Do forms and I've also been to one of Joe Schaefer's tournaments in Austin and I can say that the Shaolin Do mantis forms displayed did not have these characteristics. The hands were there and mimicked the classic diu sau posture, but the footwork wasn't very typical of mantis (or gung fu in general-IMHO). The kicks in general are not CMA type kicks and actually, from my experience, Mantis doesn't use too many kicks, and when used, they are not used in the fashion that is laid out within the Shaolin Do forms.

    If we approach it from a southern angle, I would say that the body structure is way too open and there is no emphasis on the "fu bui" or tigers back that is integral to the posture and ging generation of Southern Praying Mantis. The stepping is too wide open as well and doesn't contain any of the elements of three step arrow-like stepping. In general, SPM is very hidden in its movement. The demo shown in the vid is pretty much antithetical compared to anything SPM focuses on.

    The footwork in general is pretty generic across the board, yet at the same time isn't indicative of the arts being expressed. I've also had the opportunity of seeing Shaolin Do's Tiger and Crane set, which also displays a lot of these same kicks. Its easy to spot that this set was patterned after Hung Kuen's Fu Hok Cern Ying Kuen set, but there are drastic deviations in not only form structure, but also in method. When I say method, i mean "faht" or the actual method of the technique. Basically its the entire system expressed in one move. The kicking alone is totally against what is set forth by Hung Kuen's principles according to rooting, ,stancework, footwork, and bridging principles. So not only does it change the kicking, but it also changes the way the other techniques work because it is not working within the principle framework of how Hung Kuen works.

    The flavor of the forms are all pretty much the same, which is actually quite strange considering that some of the forms within the Shaolin Do system are complete systems unto themselves, and in many instances, are diametrically opposed to each other not only in theory, but also execution of technique. I've seen the Shaolin Do Hsing Yi Five Elements form performed with the same power as Mantis, or even Tiger forms. I've seen a Chen tai ji form within the Shaolin Do camp that was totally devoid of the very building blocks of what make Chen style what it is. I guess this is the byproduct and result of what happens when you have entire systems treated as just a stepping stone to another form or belt. The Chen style form surprised me because as I was told, this form is taught at a pretty high level within the SD org. It's taught basically around the time when people start getting promoted to "associate master", etc. I'm not exactly sure if this is true across the board, but that is what I was told at the time.

    My two centavos...

    Peace

  14. #29
    OK you are explaining systems of praying mantis that left the temple at what time? Where did it travel from there?

    The SD mantis left a Fukien Shaolin temple around 1875. I would expect there to be variations in techniques from those that were at other temples and those that left at different times. I promise you if I teach a form to someone and 400 years later I come back to see how the form has been passed down, I would see a wide range of variations.

    As to GM Sin's physique, he has commented negatively about it. He admits it was a mistake to bulk up that much. He can't do a lot of his snake as easily as he did when he was real skinny. I have noticed his style has changed over the years. A lot of his attacks are pressure point attacks, now. Which hardly matters, with his chi and power he could hit me about anywhere and I would fall down.
    Last edited by themeecer; 10-01-2003 at 07:36 PM.
    themeecer actually shares a lot of the passion that Bruce Lee had about adopting techniques into your own way of 'expressing yourself.'
    -shaolinarab
    (Nicest thing ever said about me on these boards.)

  15. #30
    It seems like the SD guys are always making desperate sounding excuses...
    "i can barely click the link. but i way why stop drinking .... i got ... moe .. fcke me ..im out of it" - GDA on Traditional vs Modern Wushu
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