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Thread: Mantak Chia or B.K. Frantzis?

  1. #1

    Mantak Chia or B.K. Frantzis?

    I am interested in getting some books, videos, tapes, etc... on the subject of meditation for my studies. Has anyone here had experience with either Mantak Chias teachings, or B.K. Frantzis? If you have studied either authors materials, and have an opinion from your own personal experience, I would appreciate your sharing them. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    I'd suggest going with neither.

    If you're interested in meditation, there are much better resources available. Depending on where you live, there may well be a buddhist meditation group nearby. If so, check it out. In my experience, such groups tend to attract people with a wide variety of beliefs, so you won't be looked down upon if you're just there to learn to meditate. As far as books on the subject, Zen mind, Beginner's mind by Shunryu Suzuki is a good place to start, though it may not be the best book on methods, maybe check out something like meditation for dummies, if such a book exists.

    If you're really interested in qi gong, as your query on those two guys would suggest, again there are much better resources. Nothing will suitably replace direct study with a knowledgeable instructor. If you can't find one, wait for a weekend seminar or something to come near your area. One weekend of real instruction will likely be better than months of book learning.
    The cinnabun palm is deadly, especially when combined with the tomato kick. - TenTigers

  3. #3
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    DWID- I think it is fairly obvious by what Hammer is curious about, is that he wants meditations to build and circulate energy, not just some buddhist concentration exercise. The second part of your answer has a bit more significance, but you're still hedging. By the way, there IS a book called Meditation for Dummies. Maybe you should read it.

    HAMMER- Chia's stuff is OK, but you definitely won't get anywhere with it without a teacher. All of Chia's books and tapes are really written as reference material for those who have some instruction from a living teacher. I personally found Frantzis's stuff to be lacking in actual useable material, most of it just seemed like commentary.

    What Dwid was right about- you need a teacher to learn this stuff.

    If you must have something to begin with, however, "The Tao of Meditation" by Jou, Hung-Tswa. Is darn good. Also check out the Tien Tao Chi Kung correspondence course...
    http://www.bambootemple.com/shaolinb...ng/default.htm

  4. #4
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    By the way, there IS a book called Meditation for Dummies. Maybe you should read it.
    Judging by the unprovoked hostility of your post, maybe you should read it.

    Personally, I'm a little past the stage where such a primer might be helpful.

    I think it is fairly obvious by what Hammer is curious about, is that he wants meditations to build and circulate energy
    I try not to make too many assumptions about what people are after on these boards.
    The cinnabun palm is deadly, especially when combined with the tomato kick. - TenTigers

  5. #5

    Arrogant Pud...

    Thanks for your response dwid, I was expecting at least one response similiar to yours. It seems alot of the posters on this board share your need for self importance and superiority by posting such drivel.

    It seems to me that some of the posters here, like yourself, need to feel superior about their training methods and put others down and give esoteric answers to simple questions, so as to appear sophisticated and complex to the apparent dullard populace here. You only succeed in looking foolish, shallow, and small.

    I really like your shot at my obvious intellectual inferiority by suggesting I, "check out something like meditation for dummies". What a wonderful example of the martial way you must be at your school or in your "buddhist meditation group". Your humbleness is staggering.

    You actually reveal your true self in your statement, " In my experience, such groups tend to attract people with a wide variety of beliefs, so you won't be looked down upon if you're just there to learn to meditate.". You concern yourself with being, "looked down upon"? Ahh, your true character is revealed- the fearful little man with a poor self-image, low confidence, and a strong need for validation and acceptance by others. How sad. Pitiful.

    After digesting your post, I have no question that the methods you use to try and achieve "enlightenment" are of no use to myself.

    Oh, and if you think you are, "a little past the stage where such a primer might be helpful", in response to the book Meditation for Dummies- think again. Until a book comes out titled, "Meditation for frustrated martial artists with inferiority complexes" you might want to give "Dummies" a read.

    QuaiJohnCain,

    Thanks for the reply. You are more perceptive than the great dwid in understanding that I want to learn to storage, and flow of Chi. Hey, I live in the San Diego area too, is there a teacher in the area that you use? Let me know.

  6. #6
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    Hmmm

    Persoanlly , if there was no choice between the two then go for Chia easily.

    Frantzis should be avoided at all costs, he is of a low order.
    " Don't confuse yourself with someone who has something to say " - The Fall

    " I do not like your tone/ It has ephemeral whingeing aspects " - The Fall

    " There are twelve people in the world/ The rest are paste " - Mark E Smith

  7. #7
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    I like some of what Chia writes. I often wonder about the origins of some of his practices though, like the inner smile. Also his 6 healing sounds are different than the six healing sounds in an old KFQ magazine article. Yang Jwing Ming has some good qigong books and Shou Yu Liang has some qigong videotapes, but bottom line the best way is with a teacher.
    What's the point

  8. #8
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    Jesus Christ, Hammer,

    I was trying to be helpful.

    I apologize if I came across as arrogant, but the vagueness of your post seemed to indicate that you were looking for some intro-level stuff. "Meditation for Dummies" was not intended as a dig. I've heard nothing but good things about the "for Dummies" series as intro level stuff. If it had existed when I started meditating, I probably would have read it instead of the ubiquitous "how to meditate" by Leshan, which I'm sure is at best on the same level as Meditation for Dummies.

    Anyway, I fail to see how my post indicated any sense of superiority about my methods. What I stated was in fact the best information I could provide.

    I should have known better.
    The cinnabun palm is deadly, especially when combined with the tomato kick. - TenTigers

  9. #9
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    Judging by the unprovoked hostility of your post, maybe you should read it.[/QUOTE]

    What, did you think qigong turns people into Mother-Theresa-in-a-kung-fu-suit?

    Personally, I'm a little past the stage where such a primer might be helpful.
    I don't agree.

    Originally posted by dwid to Hammer
    I apologize if I came across as arrogant, but the vagueness of your post seemed to indicate that you were looking for some intro-level stuff.

    I try not to make too many assumptions about what people are after on these boards.
    Uhh, here he was in the QIGONG and Meditation forum asking about people like Mantak Chia and BK Frantzis, and you go and tell him to try out Buddhist stuff? Your answer was nothing but assumption! That IS arrogant.

  10. #10
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    Uhh, here he was in the QIGONG and Meditation forum asking about people like Mantak Chia and BK Frantzis, and you go and tell him to try out Buddhist stuff? Your answer was nothing but assumption! That IS arrogant.
    Here is the final attempt I will make to explain myself. I saw a very vague question that nobody had responded to, and knowing how little traffic this area of KFO gets, I attempted to answer it as generally as possible. My assumption was, based on the phrasing of the question, that it was coming from someone with little or no qigong experience, as I could think of no other reason to be looking to books and tapes for education in qigong.

    In response to that attempt, both you and Hammer have made some pretty broad and insulting assumptions about me and my level of training. That is fine. I just don't understand the level of hostility. The meat of my initial post was the same as yours, that nothing will replace a good qigong instructor. If the rest of the post did not supply useful information, then ignore it.
    The cinnabun palm is deadly, especially when combined with the tomato kick. - TenTigers

  11. #11
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    Greetings..

    Perhaps, just perhaps.. the need to point out the flaws of others is, itself, a characteristic that could be considered "arrogant".. very few of us in here actually know each other, so it seems a little presumptive to accuse relatively benign remarks as indicators of personality flaws.. If we spent as much effort building friendships and looking for the commonalities in our experiences this forum could be more attractive.

    The saddness is that too many people in these forums look for reasons to stir-up controversy.. too much antagonism can cause the truly interested people to look elsewhere for information.. this speaks poorly for a community of people trying to improve the image of CMA.. These forums are a great gift of the technological age, why, then, do some feel the need to reduce it back to the stone-age..

    If one's meditation is producing the intended results, these issues would not surface.. As a suggestion, try to discern the difference between the ritual of meditation and the act of meditating.. try to determine the ultimate goal, then seeking a teacher will have more meaning.. Too often, people get caught-up in the ritual and miss the actual meditation..

    Be well..
    TaiChiBob.. "the teacher that is not also a student is neither"

  12. #12
    Wow, lots of b!tchiness in here!

    Dwid, I think what you said is ok. The others are the *******s here.
    "i can barely click the link. but i way why stop drinking .... i got ... moe .. fcke me ..im out of it" - GDA on Traditional vs Modern Wushu
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    but what if the man of steel hasta fight another man of steel only that man of steel knows kung fu? - Kristoffer
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  13. #13
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    Hhhhmmmm, just coming to check out the meditation board ... seems like all is well

    You got to love this bullitin board!

  14. #14
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    Oh puke. Just drop the thread already.

    One final note- if you think meditation is supposed to keep you from ever getting angry, sad, worried, etc. YOU DON'T GET IT. Hammer had his own reasons for flaming dwid, and so did I. I don't get that mad in traffic, but when I see someone B.S.ing someone else about the IMA/Qigong, I get livid. Having a love for something tends to make you protective of it. Ask any parent.

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by TaiChiBob
    If one's meditation is producing the intended results, these issues would not surface..
    Not flaming here, but that's a crock.

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