Krav Maga

[ShaolinTiger00]

True. I just finished a good book on this subject "The close-combat files of Col. Rex Applegate" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...roduct-details and in it he talks about his opinions of other's combat styles (like Biddel and Sykes) which I thought was very interesting.

[PHILBERT]

There is an Aikido school less than 1/8 a mile from my home that teaches Systema. I've seen it before, and I've never seen anyone do the "fall down without being hit" at there school.

[rogue]

Today in the US the main purpose of KM is to generate extra money for martial arts schools. Same for CDT, FIST, and just about anything else where a person gets certified in a week and then starts teaching seminars in his school.

These add-on or value added courses are quite the business in the martial arts world. Buyer beware, there are some bad systems and there are some good ones with bad instructors.

[HopGar]

I'm no expert in K'rav Maga, although I learned for a half year from a reserve soldier in Israel (actually, everyone in Israel is a reserve soldier - don't **** them off.)

From what I remember, they're quite ruthless and once they start attacking they don't stop until you're down and out. I vaguely remember something about being a synthesis of wrestling, judo, jujitsu and some other martial art - either wing chun or karate or maybe it was both. Regardless, the real deal are not people you really want to mess with in a dark alleyway.

I do remember a particular emphasis on training against weapons and with weapons. The most basic K'rav Maga is basically learning to use an m-16 like a short staff or baseball bat.

Red5 - The reason why that is, is that the guys who really know what they are doing are ranking officers in IDF and usually are combat instructors/ drill seargants.

more to come later

Peace

[HopGar]

I forgot
go ahead and check it out. If nothing else, it will just be plain fun.

Peace

[red5angel]

Today in the US the main purpose of KM is to generate extra money for martial arts schools. Same for CDT, FIST, and just about anything else where a person gets certified in a week and then starts teaching seminars in his school.

That's exactly what happen at the school here in minneapolis. The guy is notoroious for taking the quick route to get a nice banner on his school advertising he teaches it.

[stubbs]

I've only read a brief history on it and read about the concepts and training. I've only seen one vid of a three man demo.

Anyone know anything about it or had first hand experience with it?

[Ray Pina]

I knew a guy about 2 years ago who trained in it .... his technique seamed regular, nothing special. Regular striking, short elbows and knees.

[IronFist]

I went to a Krav Maga school for an intro lesson and I wasn't impressed. The style was different, but it was not "alive" or realistic enough for me.

And they corrected me for *not* reaching out to block incoming punches.

Not for me.

I'm sure there are good KM schools out there somewhere.

[chaiwai]

I seen people train. Basically all goes, with emphasis on soft targets. "You kick targets ass, and the target doesn't hit back"

[stubbs]

Did any of you guys get to have a go at their weapons training? Or improvised weapons training?


"And they corrected me for *not* reaching out to block incoming punches. "

Really? I thought they'd be tight and close up - crazy monkey type style. Although, maybe they practice reaching out to block incoming punches because of their knife training etc. I know you've had some experience with the Straight Blast gym training - how do they adapt to knife attacks?

[IronFist]

Did any of you guys get to have a go at their weapons training? Or improvised weapons training?


"And they corrected me for *not* reaching out to block incoming punches. "

Really? I thought they'd be tight and close up - crazy monkey type style. Although, maybe they practice reaching out to block incoming punches because of their knife training etc. I know you've had some experience with the Straight Blast gym training - how do they adapt to knife attacks?

Not sure, man. I only took one introductory class.

But yeah, we were doing a "warmup drill" where you'd square off with someone and take turn lobbings circular punches (not jabs or crosses) at each other's heads. I was blocking with Crazy Monkey style, and the told me "no, extend your hand to block the punch, like this," and basically reached out for it.

Then, we were all in a line (think the bad guy school in the Karate Kid movie) and the teacher would call off like "1, 2" and everyone would punch in the line all at once with like a jab and a cross. The "stance" was facing forward, like boxing or Muay Thai (so not standing sideways to your opponent like in karate), but I had my hands up by my head (crazy monkey or boxing style) and he said "no, put your hands further away, this isn't boxing," and he corrected me so that my lead hand was maybe 18" from my chest and my rear hand was maybe 6" away from my chest. The punches were with vertical fists, like Wing Chun or Isshin-ryu.

Keep in mind my opinions. What I described above was an accurate portrayal of what I remember happening in the class, but remember that I am biased in favor of SBGi and crazy monkey techniques and "aliveness" training. In the KM class I took, all the "drills" we did (except the warmup one above) were choreographed, and even in the warmup drill I knew what was going to come at me, I just didn't know exactly when. There was no element of realism at all. I know I was in a beginners class, but still. He said they don't teach grappling or ground fighting because that's "not realistic in a real life situation." It may not be, but I sure as fvck want to know how to handle myself on the ground in case the fight ends up there. We spent like 20 minutes throwing "knee to the chest" drills while our "opponent" sat there and held a huge air shield. I thought that was kind of dumb, and here's why: Even someone who's untrained can throw a knee hard enough to do serious damage. You don't need to practice it for 20 minutes of a class. You're not going to make your knee-throwing neural pathways so much more efficient in that time. I can understand a few knee throwing drills, but that 20 minutes could have been spent doing something better, like, fighting against a resisting opponent. We weren't even taught how to get into the position (hands around the neck type of clinch kinda thing). It was like "if you find yourself here, throw a knee. Now we're going to practice throwing knees for 20 minutes." Boring.

Now that I think about it, I was all excited BEFORE the class because I saw them in the phone book and called them and he said they did MMA and BJJ and stuff, and I should bring a cup and my MMA gloves to class. I was all "hell yeah" and I think I even made a thread about it here. Then I got seriously disappointed when I got there and the instructor told me "we don't spar here" or some sh.it like that. I was like "Um, on the phone he told me to bring this stuff..." and the teacher was all "uh yeah I dunno." It felt very McDojoish, actually. The teacher was a bit overweight, didn't train with the students, and liked to talk about how deadly his s.hit was. I asked him if they taught grappling and he said "no, I'm not gonna armbar someone in the street. I'm gonna rip their arm off and beat them with it" or some s.hit like that. Look, I've been around skilled MMA fighers. Most of them are very humble, and a few of them are ego-filled ass.holes, but the instructors in the KM class I tried had that air of "respect what I say cuz I'll qiblast you if you don't cuz I'm so deadly" McDojo vibe going on. They were very polite to me, but I'm not sure if they could actually fight.

One thing I did like about the class was that they had us wear street clothes if we wanted, because chances are that is what you will be wearing if you get into a fight. But other than that, I wouldn't recommend the class I took to anyone, even a newbie.

Edit - I just searched for the thread I made about the class I took, but I couldn't find it. Sorry.

Edit 2 - Is there anything unique about KM in general? Or is it just the new fad because we haven't had an art from Israel yet? I know it claims to be "efficient and deadly, etc." but really, what art doesn't? That stuff cracks me up. No one says "try our martial art: it's slow, inefficient, and weak." A quick search at urbandictionary.com reveals that Krav Maga is too deadly to be used in competition. Yawn.

[MasterKiller]

I can understand a few knee throwing drills, but that 20 minutes could have been spent doing something better, like, fighting against a resisting opponent. We weren't even taught how to get into the position (hands around the neck type of clinch kinda thing). It was like "if you find yourself here, throw a knee. Now we're going to practice throwing knees for 20 minutes." Boring.

20 minutes is nothing. One 2-hour MMA class was nothing but bicycle sweeps. A sweeps B. Then B sweeps A. Over and over.

If you want to learn something and make it automatic, that's how you train it at first. You move into using it in a more flowing drill later, and then eventually sparring. But not on your first day.

[IronFist]

^ I understand that. But understand that this drill was done in the most ineffective way ever.

[GreenCloudCLF]

I have 2 years Krav Training...nothing in it I haven't seen in Kung-Fu.

The reason I take it its because the class is taught non-stop, so it's a good workout. Plus we drill the basics over and over again, which is always good.

As for the hand being extended away rfom the body, there is solid reasoning behin it. They train with the belief that everyone has a weapon, so ou must extend to keep from being stabbed, bashed etc...

Good training...but it is all in Kung-Fu...