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Thread: Krav Maga

  1. #61
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    I have 4 Israeli men in my judo club (medical students) all under 30. I guess they think judo is good stuff I asked them about Krav Maga and they just laughed. I didn't probe further.

  2. #62
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    from what I've seen Krav Maga as taught in the U.S. rarely involves conditioning or sparring.
    I went to a K/M seminar a few months ago and it was a terrific workout. They broke out the pads and had everyone there throwing knees, elbows, punches and kicks within minutes. They do really **** with you mentally. Some methods I've heard of include walking you into a pitch black room (or maybe it was blindfolded). Sometimes there will be no one in there and nothing happens. Other times any number of classmates or instructors will attempt to choke you from behind or start shouting in your face. The reason behind this is to simulate the adrenaline and fear of a real confrontation as realistically as possible.

    This is probably not the best place to ask that question since many folks around here pretty much write-off anything that is not chinese. However, most of us have not seen the more advanced training they do that goes beyond what J-Lo will show in a movie or a magazine interview, myself included.
    Your intelligence is surpassed only by your ignorance.

    You are more likely to fall down the stairs and break your neck if you live in a house with stairs. You are more likely to be in a car accident if you drive to work. You are more likely to be kicked in the nuts or punched in the nose if you practicing the martial arts. - Judge Pen

  3. #63
    ewallace,

    I've been to the KM HQ and you're right it's a great workout.

    However, imho it's not so different from JKD (at least PFS style training). My biggest gripe is that KM seems to be technique oriented, which is not too different from the Kempo I've done in the past. I personally question this type of training, but to each their own...

    These days my JKD instructor is leaning more towards the SBG way of training (although not affiliated), which to me is very efficient and it's a great workout to boot.

    Flame away,
    KG
    Last edited by Kempo Guy; 09-18-2002 at 03:46 PM.

  4. #64
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    Originally posted by Kempo Guy
    I've been to the KM HQ and you're right it's a great workout.

    However, imho it's not so different from JKD (at least PFS style training)....

    These days my JKD instructor is leaning more towards the SBG way of training ....
    Aaah, guys what is PFS and what is SBG?




    ...And be prepared for this thread to get moved to 'other related arts' without a trace anytime soon. Judging by the speed all non-CMA threads disappeared yesterday I don't give this thread much time here in this section. Looks like Wen's rant found some sympathetic ears.
    Adam Stanecki - Practitioner of common sense.

    "Think for yourself. Question authority." - Timothy Leary

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  5. #65
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    PFS standards for Progressive Fighting Systems. Basically JKD Concepts.

    SBG - I'm not sure. It's proabably obvious though.

    Like I said I haven't seen enough to draw a conclusion one way or another.
    Your intelligence is surpassed only by your ignorance.

    You are more likely to fall down the stairs and break your neck if you live in a house with stairs. You are more likely to be in a car accident if you drive to work. You are more likely to be kicked in the nuts or punched in the nose if you practicing the martial arts. - Judge Pen

  6. #66
    Sorry,

    I should have made myself clear.
    PFS - as ewallace states is equal to JKD Concepts - Progressive Fighting systems (Paul Vunak). Here's a link to his website.

    SBG - Straight Blast Gym (Matt Thornton). I guess they also fall into the JKD concepts umbrella. You can find out more about them here.

    KG

  7. #67
    fundamental problem with most "martial arts" approaches, probably Chinese the MOST is that they are "technique driven", ie they expect you to spend time to develop techniques which require fine motor motion and attention to details,

    for 99% of the current martial arts population, they will never be able to pull off stuff like that in a high stress, adrenaline rush environment

  8. #68
    I agree with that, but I don't think that being technique driven is the problem. the problems would probably be:

    1. drilling techs that are very complicated and take too much time
    2. not drilling the same techs on a regular basis
    3. drilling them, but not on a fully resistant opponent

    you could train in a manner that is not technique driven and have the same problem in the street if you aren't trained properly. If you train muay thai and don't drill knees on a regular basis, you won't fight with them EVER, because you haven't been programmed to use them.

    My judo teacher (I've heard it elsewhere too) says that the worst you do in practice is probably the best you'll do in the street. You want to strive for perfection by drilling hard, sparring, etc. so that your worst is still damn good.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  9. #69
    SevenStar,

    I agree with what you are saying. When I say 'technique driven', what I meant was learning a response 'x' to a threat 'y'. This was how I was trained in Kempo for years.

    I have nothing against drills, I think it would be impossible to learn martial arts without them. It comes down to how these drills are trained. If they are always prearranged then imho they would be of no use. They need to be done against progressively more resistance in a sparring environment.

    I don't want to open up a can of worms here since this topic has been done to death already.

    BTW, I think you're Judo coach is a wise man.

    KG

  10. #70
    agreed. That's the way I feel about drilling too. My judo coach is 75 he's had plenty of time to gain wisdom and as old as he is, he can easily toss me like a ragdoll at will
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  11. #71
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    Like many other martial arts in America krav maga has been watered down and neutered to appeal to a mass audience. If you want the real thing, go to Israel and join a kibbutz.
    K. Mark Hoover

  12. Thumbs up

    Just to clear possible misunderstanding Iīve heard lots of good stuff about it,mostly about their gun disarms,and maybe weapon disarms,because of simplicity and therefore practicality.
    I donīt know a thing how they train in USA but even though conditioning is always important oneīs physique should not be a very big concern generally,just my understanding though.
    The sunsetīs setting down.Lay me on the forest floor.

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    -FC, summer of 2006-

  13. #73
    three career military men who served in combat and were DI's all said the same thing regading the "Krav Maga" being taught here

    it's weapons disarms are only good for one thing, getting you KILLED.....

  14. #74
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    Real self defense must include things that will not get you put in jail. Reality is that if a guy does a cross arm grab on me, I can instantly kick him in the sack, or strike him in the face hard, prabably breaking his nose, or taking out his front teeth. I mean, that is just not realistic for a lot of real self defence situations. Sure in a life or death yes, but if it is life or death, do you think a front cross arm grab will be the thing he does to me?

    Any good solid self defense system should at least allow you to be able to control to some degree the amount of force you use.

    I totally agree that trying to drill 'I do A if he does B, I do C if he does D, etc, etc' will get you very confused with the adreanal rush and surprise attack.

    I looked at the Kill or Be Killed PDF, and it is awesome. However, you have to be careful with that type of stuff. You cannot just go ridge-handing a guy in the wind-pipe, or severly gouging his eyes. I think you have to careful what you mentally and physically 'drill' yourself to do.

  15. #75
    another thing the "martial arts" program in the US usually doesn't address, LEGAL ISSUES....

    If I put my OPEN hands up in the air and announce "I don't want any trouble", you have established your personal zone. Now, it is every idiot's American civil liberties right to stand outside that zone and call you a *****, ***got, a hole etc and there isn't a thing you can do about it. BUT if they come within that zone you have the power to use reasonable force to defend yourself. If you knee somone down low in one motion and drop them it is "reasonable" at that point, if you continue to kick them in the head while they are on the ground it is not

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