Martial Artist kills 2 out of 4 attackers in Rome

[Ren Blade]

Martial arts expert kills two raiders

Philip Willan in Rome
Monday October 13, 2003
The Guardian

A Chinese martial arts expert was in custody yesterday after turning the tables on four burglars armed with knives, killing two of them and seriously wounding a third.
The 28-year-old man, known as "the doctor" for his practice of acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine, managed to seize one of the two knives carried by his assailants and saw off the entire group with the ferocity of his reaction.

Magistrates in the central Italian town of Empoli are now seeking to establish whether his self-defence constituted an excessive use of force.

The butchery, worthy of a Quentin Tarantino film, began shortly before midnight on Friday when the four men knocked at the apartment of a Chinese hairdresser in the centre of Empoli.

The hairdresser, her assistant and "the doctor", who operated from the same premises, were reportedly overpowered and tied up before the group, all thought to be in their 20s and 30s, ransacked the apartment.

Disappointed by their meagre booty, the attackers allegedly threatened to rape the two women unless they told them where the rest of their money was hidden.

At this point the doctor managed to free himself, seize a knife from one of the aggressors and deliver a series of lethal stab wounds.

Investigators found the body of one man, who had been stabbed in the heart, sprawled on the staircase and another man bleeding to death in the street from a wound to his leg. A third man is recovering in hospital from a punctured lung.

The doctor was found crouching in the entrance to the building with cuts to his shoulder, face and hands.

Investigators are trying to determine whether he inflicted the injuries while defending himself inside the apartment, or hunted down the burglars after they had fled.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/sto...1061765,00.html

[ursa major]

Interesting story. The links did not work I'll take your word for the accuracy of the report.

Reading the story fostered the usual shaking of head and frustration at the attitude of law enforcement.

Anyone who has been 'attacked' before will confirm that there are no 'martial arts experts' under these melee circumstances I'll bet the guy (the CMA guy that is) was terrified yet simply responded to training.

Excessive use of force ? Thats a good one.

I'm not surprised if he chased them out of the building -- tough to know when to stop in a life or death fight.

UM.

[Ren Blade]

Sorry Ursa. Try this link. This one should work. http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/stor...061765,00.html

[mantis108]

Investigators found the body of one man, who had been stabbed in the heart, sprawled on the staircase and another man bleeding to death in the street from a wound to his leg. A third man is recovering in hospital from a punctured lung.

That's very good and efficient knife skill cutting all the right points.

Thanks for sharing.

Regards

Mantis108

[tanglang]

Roma, la cita' del amore...- puhh, what a story!!!
subtitle: If you come to Rome, do as the Romans do...( or otherwise...)-
No. Honestly- I don't know what to think about this article. Is it brutal, was it self-defence? Don't know enough about the circumstances to say something about it. But it seems to me that the guy had no time to think and chose..

[grifter721]

Hey if you were in that situation, especially if they were going to RAPE, definetly your rage and your skill will be a great asset and also a downfall. You may want to get revenge but death is never right. Its the Dark side that he was using for sure, yet 4 guys on one, necessary force was... well necessary!

[Feng]

(I'm new to this forum just for your information)

The trouble with these kinds of situation is that the 'law' doesn't care if it was self-defence or not. They just look who is the cleanest after the fight. Sombody might want to smash your brains with a club and in self-defence you break his arm (or even kill him) still you are the one that is in trouble because you are still standing. They don't care if he wanted to kill you or not, just the fact you came out with the least damage makes your attacker the victim. It's unfair but that's how the 'law' works.

Peace

[yu shan]

Ditto Mantis 108!!!

Welcome Feng, think you`ll like this group. So you do CLF? Always had respect for this style. Had the opportunity to train a little bit with the late Master LKH.

As for the perpetrators, ya got to watch who you open your front door to.

[BaldMonk]

The Doctor should not be in custody. He should be rewarded for saving the lives of the other victims. I'm not even gonna pretend I know anything about the legal system in Rome but unless there's a whole lot of detail the article isn't covering, I can't see him being charged or convicted with anything.

[ursa major]

Originally posted by BaldMonk
... I can't see him being charged or convicted with anything.

I think most legal systems are grey when 'the victim' refuses to play the victims role and assumes the role that the policing profession prefers to assume. In particular they seem to take issue with the MA community. I am sure they have their reasons.

Our CMA brother (in the news article) lost the sympathy of the legal system when he refused to be a victim. Moreover the policing profession may now see him in an adversarial role.

For what it is worth I was thrilled to hear the guy defended his friends and survived. But having been through the legal system myself for a similar but (emphasize) far less dramatic encounter, can say that his troubles are only beginning. The right guy in the wrong place at the right time. I hope he fares well. I think he will need a good lawyer.

Regards,
UM.

[tanglang]

I think everyone here will agree that he had no choice and and showed courage by risking his own life to protect the lifes and the dignity of others. Our natural feeling of equity (?) would say: yes, he was absolutely right to react like this. ( - If the force he used was adequate to the situation and not simply an act of rage and brutal revenge- the article doesn't allow to decide that exactly, but judging from how the situation is presented I think noone could charge him for what he did.)
But the law has to judge about the question: was it absolutely necessary to kill or was there another way to get out of the situation and the guy didn't go this way maybe? If the answer is: yes, it was absolutely necessary- he's out of trouble. If the answer is no- he has a big problem.
I agree with UM: He needs a very good lawyer to convince the court that the answer can't be another than yes.

[mantisben]

Originally posted by Ren Blade
...with cuts to his shoulder, face and hands.

With cuts to his face? 4 attackers? He was tied up? This was clearly self-defense.

The butchery, worthy of a Quentin Tarantino film...

This statement of "butchery" and reference to a Quentin Tarantino flick is $hit propaganda. I wouldn't wipe my @$$ with it.

The hairdresser, her assistant and "the doctor", operated from the same premises, an apartment. Must not've been a very big place if they're running 2 business out of 1 apartment. I'm thinking close-quarter combat with knives, 4 men against 1, with 2 women tied up, already threatened with rape.

If he was such a good fighter, why did he wait until he was tied up before reacting? My guess is he was waiting until he felt he had no other choice to defend himself and the lives of the women who were tied up, and already threatened with rape.

Sounds to me like he ACTUALLY showed restraint, until he saw the death of himself and the 2 women, unless he reacted with the skills that would prevent the loss of innocent life! He broke free of the bonds he was in, and wasted no motion in his attacks, trying to bring the ordeal to a close as quickly as possible.

I'm not a lawyer, but even I could make a case in favor of "the doctor".

This man should NOT go to jail...

[ursa major]

Originally posted by mantisben
...I'm not a lawyer, but even I could make a case in favor of "the doctor".

This man should NOT go to jail...

Ditto on that Mantisben.

You know I am getting so agitated by this guy's story that I made efforts to contact the author of the article (Phillip Willan) to gather more info, maybe find out what is what ? If I do find out more I will post it.

Regards,
UM.