The culture of OVERTRAINING in MARTIAL ART

[BentMonk]

Training hard is a beautiful thing. Not listening to your own body is just plain stupid. There is a huge difference between feeling the burn and OW! If it hurts too bad, stop. Also on a training note, try not going to failure on your exercises. Do only as many as you can do with good form. Going to failure results in poor form. Poor form is the number one cause of exercise injury. Also by knowing you did as many as you could do, and you did them right will leave you feeling positive about yourself and your workout, thus staving off burn out. Just some thoughts. Peace.

[rogue]

I used to spend more time sparring than working on the weakness' that the sparring showed. After awhile I spent more time injured than well. I should have listened to my friend who does MT and either started to wear padding or to go lighter.

[Xebsball]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
xebs, why are you angry about this? I thought you said you don't train at all! So why should it bother you how others train?
Why should it be anyones concern how someone else trains?
If anything, it's more important to focus on your own training.

cheers

1) Firsrt of all im not angry, if i was id use: " "
2) Secdond of all, dotn disrespect me like this again, this is the last time you disrespcet me like this and get away with it, learn to love your life before i lay it to waste
3) Third, yeah indeed i stopped training - but i posted this cos its something i actually had thought of while i still was training but i had forgotten to make a thread AND i also cos recently i read an article (on a fitness site) about overtraining WICH made me remember to bring back the subject.
I actually truly dont give a fock how you train, true that, you right
But of course, if you do the same then i dont see why you should post anything martial arts related on here - cos it would have influence on how others train - and you knowing that and not caring you wouldnt want to have influence, understand? but you still do post stuff about martial arts and exchange info with others, in other words -> get back to number 2)

[David Jamieson]

honestly xebs

you take every bit of advice or contradiction to your views as an insult or disrespect.

what are you gonna do about it? idle threats are useless man, I don't make em. So why threaten me?

Don't write cheques with your mouth that the rest of you can't cash is all I gotta say about that dude.

Have a nice day. and remember an i-net discussion forum is no place for the thin skinned.

[Royal Dragon]

LOL!!

On over trainig, I think it's VERY common in Chinese arts in general. It's that train everyday thing that really gets you, not so much how hard you train. Really, most of the things we do fully exaughst us before any real dammage occures. However, that story really changes when you go every day 7 days a week for months, or even years at a time. The body NEEDS rest and recovery time. In modern arena's, it's almost down to a science now.

In the past, I found that If I train more than 3 days in a row, for long periods of time, my development actually stagnates. This could be why so many traditional arts take so long to become proficient.

After much research, and experimantation, I found that if I train 3 days straight, where one day is strength, and two cardio followed by a day or two off, I do the best.

I can also go two days strength, one day cardio as well.

generally whatevre I do on day one, I do on day three. Then I do the opposite on day Two.

For example,

day 1 Strength
day 2. cardio.
day 3 strength

Then I take a day or two off and repete.

Now, if my goals are to drop wieght, or improve my endurance, I'll just make days 1 & 3 cardio, and day 2 strength.

Over all, this puts me on a 9 day mini cycle. Every 3 mini cycles, I switch it up from strength based to cardio based.

The hardest part nowadys, is keeping the scedual. I usually end up doing strength on monday, mis tues, but get some cardio in the form of practicing the Long Fist sets I know on Wed. Thurs or Friday, I get some internal work done, or regular conditioning, or some light weights and stuff etc. then I rest on the week ends. This isnt' as effective as when I do the full 9 day scedual with 3 days on 1-2 days off, but it still works in needed rest time, and I DEFENETLY feel I progress faster than when I trained daily till I collapsed so much that it took 20 minutes of just sitting there before my legs recoverd enough to stand.

[rogue]

Secdond of all, dotn disrespect me like this again, this is the last time you disrespcet me like this and get away with it, learn to love your life before i lay it to waste

Watch it KL or next thing you know he'll be saying, "Say hello to my little friend!"

[CrippledAvenger]

IMO, it's a fine line between going hard enough to really get some benefit and over-training. Yesterday, I sat through a grueling 2 hour Shuai Chiao class, then did two hours of intense boxing/muay thai. Was that overtraining? For me, no. Did it push me to my limits? Hell, yes. Would it be overtraining for someone else? Quite possibily.

The problem I think in some sense, is conditioning. I've been working on my cardio and my strength for the last three months, so going 4 hours wasn't entirely too much. However, if I was in the condition that I started in this past August, I'd probably have gone too hard, and as a result, injured something.

How many CMAs do roadwork? How many Karateka do wind sprints? I personally don't know that many, which brings me to my point: there has to be a basic level of conditioning present BEFORE you can go hard, not the other way around. That, I think, is where you start seeing the overtraining and injury problems begin (generally speaking).

[yenhoi]

when exactly did xebs turn into such a little girl?

[ComeToJesus]

Ok Vash, but then when you're faced with an extremely difficult task (physical or other), you will be the one to break down and give up, while I will be the one to keep going because I've been through worse.
Not that I'm supporting overtraining, but I'm sick of efficiency freaks who turn training into ****ing rocket science.
"Well you shouldn't do 12.5 reps with a weight of 125.7lbs, you should do 11.9, and if your weight is 180lbs, and your biceps make an arc of diamater of 15 inches, then you should squat 238.1lbs..." and all that bs
Just ****in train

EDIT oh yeah, and I sense a Xebsball vs Kung Lek thread coming

[David Jamieson]

Only water dragon gets to be my nemesis.

Because he asked first. Anyone else will simply have to take the "second banana" position.

The line starts............................................ .............>here


cheers

[Vash]

Originally posted by ComeToJesus
Ok Vash, but then when you're faced with an extremely difficult task (physical or other), you will be the one to break down and give up, while I will be the one to keep going because I've been through worse.
Not that I'm supporting overtraining, but I'm sick of efficiency freaks who turn training into ****ing rocket science.
"Well you shouldn't do 12.5 reps with a weight of 125.7lbs, you should do 11.9, and if your weight is 180lbs, and your biceps make an arc of diamater of 15 inches, then you should squat 238.1lbs..." and all that bs
Just ****in train

Que? I'm not sure exactly where I got confused about what I was saying (as must be the case, as you obviously know what you're talking about). Let's get a few definitions out of the way . . .

Pain = Resulting sensation from INJURY. Not good.
Soreness = Resulting from workload excelling previous tested limits. Good thing, if not taking too long to recover from.

The body is a machine. The study and application of training improvements to said machine is, in fact, a science. The more efficiently (dirty word!) we can train, the more gains we can make, the safer we can train, the better we become.

Intense training is great. But, not every workout, whether on technique or attribute training, should be undertaken taken with highest possible workload.

Your over-analyzation example is flawed. It is far better to train in a manner which benefits the organism the most while limiting the risk for injury (which can result from over-training).

So, to summarize as I've got a speech to finish:

Over-training = Bad.
Smart, intense workouts= Good.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

I think people should be more worried about the frequency and consistency of their training program rather than over-training.

Like RD said it is easy to overdo it and not give the body the needed rest-periods. Sometimes less gains more.

But why do we have such a culture of overtraining?

Are we too competetive?
Are we judging our own skills and abilities against the wrong markers?

How often do I here and on other boards, why don't you guys look more muscular and buff.

Looks like a lot of people got their standards and ideas crossed.
What is more important for a MA to have six-pack and low BMI or good skill.

Or why do so many hobbyists try to compete with pro-ma in looks and training programs.

Yes, fitness and strength is important but they need to be in realistic relations do your needs and everyday life-style.

When does "more is better" stop being useful and become a hindrance?

Just my thoughts.

[ComeToJesus]

I agree, pain is bad. You should train hard, but you shouldn't be in pain which makes you scream.
Yeah my example was a little exaggerated, but from what I've seen some people come close to being like that. That's what I hate.
Just listen to your body, you don't need people to tell you how many squats/benches you need to do at what weight.
At least that's how it is with me...
Anyways Vash, I didn't mean to go directly against you and your theory, but I think a little pain (not muscle-tearing-bone-crunching pain) is good. Makes other pains you encounter later on trivial. CHARACTER MAN

[fa_jing]

I've heard that overtraining is overblown, the big no-no's are under resting and under eating.

[Serpent]

Hasn't Royal Dragon been resting for years now, waiting for his back to get back into fighting shape or something?