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Thread: Meditation

  1. #46
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    Dwell on what's happening to you rather than what they are doing and your environment...
    The word you used...'rather'...seem to imply that it's only possible to do EITHER one or the other. I disagree with that.

    ..you *wil* loose.
    That’s pretty broad statement, and speculative at best.

    If a guy who’s 7 foot tall, weighs 150kgs and uses an internal TO external (i.e. both) type of focusing... and he fights a guy who is 4 foot tall weighs 40kgs and uses external focusing. Who’s going to win is not really a matter saying: "Hey he uses external focusing, so he *will* win!"

    There's many factors that dictate who will win.
    Last edited by S.Teebas; 02-22-2004 at 11:25 PM.
    S.Teebas

  2. #47
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    meditative state

    I also think there's a variety of definitions here - a meditative state to me sounds like the state I'm in when sparring etc when I have a heathly level of confidence (without ego), I'm alert and I'm not thinking about anything in particular.

    Unfortunately, more than likely, I'll start thinking "hey I'm doing well" or "he shouldn't be getting those in" - similar to the destructive self talk anerlich described above.

    I don't think a meditative state has to be a lazy mind, or devoid of action - just focussed on the present?

  3. #48
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    Originally posted by anerlich
    I
    Some people say your mental state during combat should equate that of meditation, but IMO this is wrong. Meditation requires an internal focus, and a fairly narrow one.
    uss.
    I normally like the majority of your posts but I cant believe you said that

    meditation..if done correctly is about getting a universal perspective and is in NO way narrow...it's seeing without seeing and sensing qi over physcial..esapecially during surprise attacks..why are you off guard like that anyway!!!????!!!

    good breathing comes with peace comes from meditative familiarity...the longer you practioce, the higher you cultivate and the easier it is to return to that frequency at any given moment..

    to break down into nuero - scientific terms..as you meditate...hopefully you will be gaining new insights, having new thoughts, in turn creating new nueral-pathways and providing you keep that pahtway open and stimulated by diligent practice and cultivation, it should not only expand but be increasingly esaier to access at increasing faster time..which pending practice method should provide a carry over ..upto and including during practice...

    Masterkiller once said that gongfu was moving meditation...I love that ....:
    rolleyes:
    nice try though...

  4. #49
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    My sigung did a qigong seminar last week that I attended. I learned a lot about qigong and some benefits of standing meditation.

    One of the major things to look out for in tension in the neck and shoulders. You want good ciculation through these areas so your brain can communicate with your body easier. If you have good flow your brain will tell your body to heal faster. He also said to meditate once a day for at least 15 minutes but preferably 30.

    Then he discussed how energy is released and used from the body. How some people steal it from others, and how some people expend too much of theirs. Overall it was a very interesting experience. I also learned that house cats are qigong masters, and masters of meditation.

    To do some basic standing meditation, stand in a relaxed stance with your tail bone tucked. This creates a circle from the dan tien up your centerline to your chest, around your head and back down the spine. Close your mouth so your teeth touch but do not clench. Place your tounge to your pallet. Hold your arms straight out in a large circle at your chest level. Like you are holding a huge barrel. Slightly close your eyes and focus only a few feet in front of you. Hold it for 15 minutes. Adjust your body accordingly as you go. If you feel you need to stretch something stretch it. Listen to your body. Try not to scratch any itches though, just sit through those (I can't remember why, but I remember him saying don't scratch anything).

    When doing that I felt a sensation of energy circling around my arms from hand to hand. I then would rotate my arms up and down and feel the energy split (yin and yang). I am somewhat new to qigong so I can't describe it any further than that.

  5. #50
    Simon:

    Played a lot of sports when I was a kid and a young teenager...including Catch Wrestling at the age of 12-13-14...and for the next ten years - (I started with Wing Chun at the age of 24.5)...

    I played lead guitar in various local rock/soul/blues bands around the metropolitan New York area here.

    When disco came in...I got out...Good to dance to...terrible to play as a musician.

    AND BESIDES...IT WAS TIME TO DO WING CHUN...which is something I'll take with me all the way to the end !

  6. #51
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    meditation..if done correctly is about getting a universal perspective and is in NO way narrow...it's seeing without seeing and sensing qi over physcial..esapecially during surprise attacks..why are you off guard like that anyway!!!????!!!
    Well, our definitions differ. To me, meditation is a physical exercise that I perform to gain control the conscious mind, not about gaining extra senses or abilities of dubious veracity.

    As I thought I'd made very clear, the focus I adopt during the exercise is NOT something I would EVER undertake where attack was of the remotest possibility, as it is unhelpful if not downright dangerous. So I'm not off guard. I'm sure even you aren't "on guard" 24 hours a day - unless you never sleep.

    IMO all that other stuff sounds like lines from a badly translated KF movie. I'm a scpetic about most things, but most especially about the more grandiose claimsd regarding qi. Sorry if I didn't meet whatever expectations you may have had about any of that.

    If you're expecting some sort of ESP to be able to help you in a threatening situation, make sure you have full insurance cover. Defense is about doing simple things correctly, not arcane metaphysics.

    The word you used...'rather'...seem to imply that it's only possible to do EITHER one or the other. I disagree with that.
    I never said it wasn't possible. Indeed, people have trouble NOT doing it, to their detriment. I just said that IMO it's a bad idea.

    There's many factors that dictate who will win.
    Oh, all right Mr Pedantic. I can't see anyone beating an enraged bull elephant.

    But surely you have to get ALL your ducks in a line to maximise your chances. And if you think you can get by without everything you possibly can working for you in a situation where you are under attack, you too need to speak to an insurance salesman pronto.

    And the more of those attributes you get working for you, including your focus, the better your chances. Can you afford to take the risk? I think not.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

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  7. #52
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    Unfortunately, more than likely, I'll start thinking "hey I'm doing well" or "he shouldn't be getting those in" - similar to the destructive self talk anerlich described above.
    Bang on, Simon. That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Once your own performance becomes the focus, you start to handicap yourself. Affirmations, self-evaluation, and meditation are all good, but during training, not during a fight!
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

    WC Academy BJJ/MMA Academy Surviving Violent Crime TCM Info
    Don't like my posts? Challenge me!

  8. #53
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    Originally posted by anerlich



    As I thought I'd made very clear, the focus I adopt during the exercise is NOT something I would EVER undertake where attack was of the remotest possibility, as it is unhelpful if not downright dangerous. So I'm not off guard. I'm sure even you aren't "on guard" 24 hours a day - unless you never sleep.

    GOOD POINT ..



    IMO all that other stuff sounds like lines from a badly translated KF movie. I'm a scpetic about most things, but most especially about the more grandiose claimsd regarding qi. Sorry if I didn't meet whatever expectations you may have had about any of that.

    If you're expecting some sort of ESP to be able to help you in a threatening situation, make sure you have full insurance cover. Defense is about doing simple things correctly, not arcane metaphysics.



    WELL IF YOU ARE GENUINELY NOT AWARE OF ACTIVITY OUTSIDE OF YOUR RANGE OF VISION , FAIR ENOUGH I GUESS
    BUT A BADLY TRSNSLATED KF MOVIE??!! LOL..NICE ANALOGY




    And the more of those attributes you get working for you, including your focus, the better your chances. Can you afford to take the risk? I think not.

    AND WHAT EXACTLY ARE WE FOCUSSING ON?? THE ANTICIPATED MOVEMENT RIGHT.... lol..WHATEVER

  9. #54
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    Don't think! feeeeeel!! Don't go into the light!

  10. #55
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    Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
    Simon:

    Played a lot of sports when I was a kid and a young teenager...including Catch Wrestling at the age of 12-13-14...and for the next ten years - (I started with Wing Chun at the age of 24.5)...

    I played lead guitar in various local rock/soul/blues bands around the metropolitan New York area here.

    When disco came in...I got out...Good to dance to...terrible to play as a musician.

    AND BESIDES...IT WAS TIME TO DO WING CHUN...which is something I'll take with me all the way to the end !
    Sounds very similar to me (except the catch - not very experienced on the ground yet!) - played lead for a rock/blues/grunge type band for about 5 years in Perth, but just when we were getting some national radio play the band went different directions because of day jobs!

    Found Wing Chun a couple of month later and now all my creative energy goes there. definitely training it to the end too!

    re: disco - never enjoyed just clicking on the wah wah - scratching along to a heavy base line and calling it a song?

    Originally posted by anerlich


    Bang on, Simon. That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Once your own performance becomes the focus, you start to handicap yourself. Affirmations, self-evaluation, and meditation are all good, but during training, not during a fight!
    ok so from your personal experience - progressive resistance, attempted realism in the the class etc is the kind of ideas you have used to concentrate on the exterior.

    I guess thats what I was asking above, first hand accounts of a meditative state not making you concentrate on yourself, or your training, instead calming the interior so you can more easily concentrate on the exterior. This may be kung fu movie mumbo jumbo - thats why I am asking.

  11. #56
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    Oh, all right Mr Pedantic.
    I'll take that as a compliment. ..as Yuanfan often says: "the devil is in the details!"

    I can't see anyone beating an enraged bull elephant.
    Perhaps an enraged bull elephant with internal focus could beat him.
    Last edited by S.Teebas; 02-23-2004 at 07:37 PM.
    S.Teebas

  12. #57
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    S Teebas, take it as a compliment. I agree I made a far too sweeping statement.

    Perhaps an enraged bull elephant with internal focus could beat him.
    Bags not me who tries to find out
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

    WC Academy BJJ/MMA Academy Surviving Violent Crime TCM Info
    Don't like my posts? Challenge me!

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexus View Post
    This makes sense. If we're walking, and we try to focus on each thing specifically, we enter into dualistic thinking.. for example, we focus on a branch, and we see the branch, not the tree. Focus on the tree, and we see the tree, not the forest. Focus on the forest.. etc.

    By relaxing and breathing, we experience all the senses in full bloom, and our awareness is heightened, which could be thought of as our sixth sense. Take care.
    The "we" that is experiencing the senses is the mind. When the source of the "I" is sought, it is cut off at the root. Then there is in fact no mind by which to experience any senses. There is no sixth sense, since there is in fact no "doer" who experiences any senses.

    The source of all things is the Self. The Self is all there is. To see the Self, Be the Self. Look for the source of where thoughts come from and where the notion of "I" arises. The mind, when sought after disperses since there cannot be both the "doer" and the one who observes the "doer."

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexus View Post
    The mind, when sought after disperses since there cannot be both the "doer" and the one who observes the "doer."
    then who is writing this?

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexus View Post
    The "we" that is experiencing the senses is the mind. When the source of the "I" is sought, it is cut off at the root. Then there is in fact no mind by which to experience any senses. There is no sixth sense, since there is in fact no "doer" who experiences any senses.

    The source of all things is the Self. The Self is all there is. To see the Self, Be the Self. Look for the source of where thoughts come from and where the notion of "I" arises. The mind, when sought after disperses since there cannot be both the "doer" and the one who observes the "doer."
    Hi Nexus,

    Welcome back!

    If the "I" is cut off at the root, and there is no mind to experience the senses, then what is this "Self" of which you speak? If there is no "I" how can there be a "SELF"?

    If there is no doer that experiences any senses, then why do I experience sensation and what is it that is experiencing them?

    If there is no doer who observes the doer, then what is it that observes and what is it that acts and how are the two related?

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