Me = píssed off

[IronFist]

[rant]

I'm pretty ****ed. Here's why:

1. I just started the 3rd week of my current 4 week weight lifting program and I'm getting weaker. It's the specialization program I posted a few weeks ago. I'm pretty ****ed about this. The first two weeks I made progress but tonight during a 12 sets of 3-4 reps I was weaker than I was during week 1. wtf?

2. I pride myself on the fact that I have good form when I workout. When I squat I go ass to the ground. When I do pullups I complete straighten my arms between reps. When I bench I bring the bar all the way down to my chest. But I look around and the huge people don't squat all the way down, they don't bench all the way down, and well, they don't do pullups so let's ignore that one. Granted, average weightlifters have crappy form, too, but so do the huge people. That ****es me off. People with bad form get better results than me.

3. My quads **** me off. My squat goes down faster than hell if I don't squat numerous times per week. Remember that these are full range squats Once I actually got some decent size on my quads and then I didn't squat for a week and it all fell off.

4. My progress ****es me off. I know I haven't been terribly consistent since I started lifting weights 4 years ago cuz of things like classes, big projects, sickness, etc. But really, in the past 3 years I really haven't made any consistent progress. I'll peak in either size or strength, and then something will happen and I'll have to stop lifting weights for a while. I really haven't hit a PR in any lifts in the last 3 years, with the exception of DL and that's only because I just started DL'ing 2 years ago. I mean, I'll tie old PR's every once in a while, but tying old PR's doesn't count as setting new ones. The only thing I keep progressing in is learning new things about training, but I still get passed up in the gym by people who use old and flawed methods and crappy form. That ****es me off.

5. I used a new curl bar tonight and got a blister in between the callouses on my right hand and it popped. That ****ed me off.

Ok that's it.

[/rant]

[Serpent]

You might just as well give up, eh.

[Toby]

Originally posted by IronFist
1. I just started the 3rd week of my current 4 week weight lifting program and I'm getting weaker. It's the specialization program I posted a few weeks ago. I'm pretty ****ed about this. The first two weeks I made progress but tonight during a 12 sets of 3-4 reps I was weaker than I was during week 1. wtf?

Might have to go back to PTP, eh?

2. I pride myself on the fact that I have good form when I workout. When I squat I go ass to the ground. When I do pullups I complete straighten my arms between reps. When I bench I bring the bar all the way down to my chest. But I look around and the huge people don't squat all the way down, they don't bench all the way down, and well, they don't do pullups so let's ignore that one. Granted, average weightlifters have crappy form, too, but so do the huge people. That ****es me off. People with bad form get better results than me.

3. My quads **** me off. My squat goes down faster than hell if I don't squat numerous times per week. Remember that these are full range squats Once I actually got some decent size on my quads and then I didn't squat for a week and it all fell off.

I've never been good at the ass to the floor squats. Why not try some partial squats? I can lift a lot more if I just go to parallel. Alternatively, why not try chains or bands and lift a lot more in the parallel-upwards ROM? That'd certainly hit your quads hard, and you'd be able to maintain your good form. Also, the sprints I've been doing hit my quads hard. 20s/10s x 8 = 2 laps of the oval and afterwards my quads are feeling it. Doesn't take too long to recover, though, so I'm good to go the next morning for weights. Might be something you could try to mix it up a bit for quad maintenance. Works for all those 100m sprinters, judging by their quads .

As to the "huge people have poor form" comment, yeah, but are they strong for their size? I thought you were interested in strength, not size. I've gotta agree with you though, there were a few people at my old gym who used to come in and bench heavy, but only until their upper arms were parallel to the floor, so about 1/2 the ROM of down to your chest. Still impressed everyone, though.

4. My progress ****es me off. I know I haven't been terribly consistent since I started lifting weights 4 years ago cuz of things like classes, big projects, sickness, etc. But really, in the past 3 years I really haven't made any consistent progress. I'll peak in either size or strength, and then something will happen and I'll have to stop lifting weights for a while. I really haven't hit a PR in any lifts in the last 3 years, with the exception of DL and that's only because I just started DL'ing 2 years ago. I mean, I'll tie old PR's every once in a while, but tying old PR's doesn't count as setting new ones. The only thing I keep progressing in is learning new things about training, but I still get passed up in the gym by people who use old and flawed methods and crappy form. That ****es me off.

Kind of funny how you plateau, huh? I reached a plateau that I gradually broke through after training exactly the same way for 4 years. I managed to get up to 85-90kg x 8-10 reps on bench. Took about 2 years to go from 80kg to 90kg. Then, all of a sudden, after 4 1/2 years, something happened. In less than a month I went up to 100kg with no change in diet, exercise regime, nothing. Now that I've stopped doing that workout and started PTP, I've gone up to 4x110kg. I've seen people get frustrated when their maxes went down and quit weights altogether. For me, I'll be happy when I'm an old guy (or older ) and I start slipping maxes as long as I can maintain a relatively high level of strength. Anything's better than sitting around getting weak.

5. I used a new curl bar tonight and got a blister in between the callouses on my right hand and it popped. That ****ed me off.

Now that's worth getting ****ed off about .

As an alternative to Serpent's giving up suggestion, you could try getting on the juice?! J/k.

[Ford Prefect]

The first two weeks I made progress but tonight during a 12 sets of 3-4 reps I was weaker than I was during week 1. wtf?

No sweat, Iron. Just sounds like you either had a bad day or are pushing the volume a little much. Either of the two is fine. If you had a bad day, then no worries. We all have the days where we aren't mentally or physically there. If you are overtraining, then that's no problem either as long as you aren't going crazy with volume. When you slightly overtrain for a bit, adaption is that much higher when you take a week break from lifting. Lots of guys that have read Siff and Russian strength training literature actually purposefully overtrain their clients for this exact reason.

Granted, average weightlifters have crappy form, too, but so do the huge people. That ****es me off. People with bad form get better results than me.

If by better results, you mean gaining strength through a limitted ROM while increasing the chance of injury, then I agree that they do get better results... That's the thing about cheating, it's so tempting. You can lift more weight, so you get bigger and "stronger". I don't cheat much myself, but I don't pride myself in having form either. The only reason why I use good form is to avoid injury. I've gotten stupid and hurt myself in the past because I had such a hard on to lift heavier weights.

Will some people go through life with crappy form and never get injured? Sure! Do I think it's worth the risk to my body even if there is only a 1% chance of serious injury? NO! This is the only body I got. I'm not about to take unecessary risk.

3. My quads **** me off. My squat goes down faster than hell if I don't squat numerous times per week. Remember that these are full range squats Once I actually got some decent size on my quads and then I didn't squat for a week and it all fell off.

Detraining is an ugly thing. Don't forget about important a role mind set is to training. If you keep telling yourself that you lose strength on your squat quickly, guess what will happen... These little mental traps are what cause a lot of stagnation and plateaus. Where your mind goes, your body follows.

A while back a 4:00 mile was said to be impossible. Not even olympians could break that mark. Once somebody did, a whole slew of people followed once they found it was possible. The only thing previously holding them back was their self-imposed limitations. Now even high school kids are running it. Same goes for a 500 lbs clean and jerk, 700 lbs bench press, etc. Don't put any limits on yourself bro. You are capable of anything!

4. My progress ****es me off. I know I haven't been terribly consistent since I started lifting weights 4 years ago cuz of things like classes, big projects, sickness, etc.

I know ya don't want to hear it, but that's to be expected with inconsistency. I know you have Arnold's Encyclopedia. Read the section when he talks about finding ways to lift while he was in the middle of the Austrian alps in a tank or when he first moved here and had to work his a$$ off to make ends meat and still workout enough to get the Olympia titles. There's always time.

5. I used a new curl bar tonight and got a blister in between the callouses on my right hand and it popped. That ****ed me off.

Suck it up pansy.

[Suntzu]

i can't squat a$$ to floor......... i'm such a loser.......

[fa_jing]

When lifting weights it's not like a line that just slopes up, you will have days were you can do less. You are only just now getting back into it, try to be patient and look at your long term progress.

Another possibility is that you have AIDS.

[Serpent]

Oh man, I love KFO. Look at these suggestions and words of advice:

You might just as well give up, eh.

As an alternative to Serpent's giving up suggestion, you could try getting on the juice?!

Suck it up pansy.

Another possibility is that you have AIDS.

Ahahaha! Too much fun.

Of course, there's also loads of great advice and positive encouragement on this thread too, but let's not spoil things by looking at that.

And personally, I think one of those comments can apply to all your issues, Iron:

Suck it up pansy.

And push on - ever upwards. More Power!

[Vash]

Ah, lifting. I remember when I did that. Course, I also remember when I could bend over and tie my shoe . . .

Whenever I started platueing, even if I were in the middle of a cycle, I'd wait one week after I noticed the slow-down, then if it continued/didn't improve, I'd drop the cycle and start hitting it with something else completely different.

[abobo]

I might be preaching to the choir but it seems to me that

1. Once you start a program, stick to it. Bad days happen. Don't sweat it unless you get hurt or something. A couple of weeks ago I struggled to deadlift what was basically a warm up weight, but I haven't had any problems lately.

2. Full range of motion, starting strength, and safety beat ego any day. I don't consider someone strong if he/ she can't control the weight. Besides, I wouldn't worry about what other people are doing unless you really think you have something to learn from them.

3. For me, bulking up is a full time job.
After switching to PtP I lost some weight, and stopped getting compliments about my appearance. But I know I could do it again if I play my cards right.

4. Yeah, consistency will make or break you. I had to put a lot on hold this summer when I was traveling. When I finally got back in the gym it was like starting from scratch.


That's why I like the paralletes. They bring a lot of new goals to shoot for and I don't have to go out of my way to work them in.


I train alone for now, and maybe you do too. But if all else fails, find someone stronger than you who knows what he/she is doing, and stick with them.

[IronFist]

Thanks to everyone for their responses. Here are my replies.

Toby said:
Might have to go back to PTP, eh?

Yeah, except for the fact that PTP kills my endurance. After doing sets of 5 for a long time my 12RM was like 50% of my 1RM which is pretty messed up.

I've never been good at the ass to the floor squats. Why not try some partial squats?

Because I talk so much **** about people who do partial squats that my ego won't let me do anything other than full range squats.

I can lift a lot more if I just go to parallel.

Maybe I'll try just going to parallel. I have trouble remember exactly where that is. I need to set up a series of mirros that will let me see myself from the side while I'm looking straight ahead. If I stop before the complete ROM, I'm afraid I will start stopping too high, cuz you know how when you start getting tired you start doing less ROM... so to prevent that I just go all the way down.

Alternatively, why not try chains or bands and lift a lot more in the parallel-upwards ROM?

Well, we don't have chains or bands or anything. Plus, my squat is so small that I don't think I'm anywhere near needing chains or bands.

Also, the sprints I've been doing hit my quads hard. 20s/10s x 8 = 2 laps of the oval and afterwards my quads are feeling it.

Maybe I'll try that. I suck at running so that should be a good way to kick my ass into making progress again.

Works for all those 100m sprinters, judging by their quads .

What about just doing 100m sprints?

As to the "huge people have poor form" comment, yeah, but are they strong for their size? I thought you were interested in strength, not size.

I am primarily interested in strength, but I want some size, too. I can be superficial sometimes.

there were a few people at my old gym who used to come in and bench heavy, but only until their upper arms were parallel to the floor, so about 1/2 the ROM of down to your chest. Still impressed everyone, though.

Do you think those people notice that they're not using full ROMs? Do you think they notice that other people ARE using full ROMs? Just curious.

Ford Prefect said:
If you are overtraining, then that's no problem either as long as you aren't going crazy with volume

You know, I almost think I might be overtraining. The only reason I think this is because my normally high appetite has been kind of tame recently. Like I'll come home from the gym and have a shake, and then an hour later I'm not craving another huge meal like I used to. And on top of that I've gained like 2lbs in the last two weeks.

If by better results, you mean gaining strength through a limitted ROM while increasing the chance of injury, then I agree that they do get better results...

By better results, I meant bigger. Some of the people I see with bad form are big, shredded guys.

I just get mad cuz people with poor training habbits are bigger, stronger, and have more endurance than me. I see guys with huge triceps doing stupid stuff like triceps pulldowns and other useless crap. But maybe it's not useless if they get huge off of it. I see guys with huge biceps doing whole body barbell curls. I see guys with tree trunk quads doing squats and only coming down half way, although with a lot of weight (obviously, tho, cuz they're only going down half way).

And I'm also mad because other than slight fluctuations, I've really not made any progress in almost 3 years. Wtf? I'm supposed to be knowledgable about this whole weight lifting thing, but you wouldn't know it by looking at me and my training logs (progress)

edit: PS. abobo's Kuribo's Shoe avatar is awesome!

[Toby]

inic,

One other exercise that I used to love for triceps was close-arm benchpress. You know, the one where your hands are touching in the middle of the bar. It might use a different part of the triceps to pulldowns, but it's hard work. Start off with 1/2 your normal benchpress weight and work up to about 2/3 when you're comfortable with them. They can really challenge your balance, too, so they probably use a lot of supporting muscles. The only thing I don't like is they can be hard on your wrists.


Iron,

I made the PTP comment tongue-in-cheek. I remembered your endurance issues. BTW, I tried to do the 2nd (90%) set of benchpress at 80kg x 8 reps this morning. I struggled. Last Friday I finished a PTP cycle with 110kg x 4. Obviously I've developed the same endurance issues .

Re the squats. I put my spotter bars on the power rack just below parallel (about 3-4"). I can sort of tell with peripheral vision whether or not I'm about to hit them, so I know how low I'm going. I do squats after bench and I squat the bar up from the spotter bars to the squat racks after benching so that helps too. Also, on the last rep, I go back down to the spotter bars because my next exercise is DL's, so those 2 things reminds me what my ROM should be.

Re the sprints. I suck at running too. 20s is 100m for me . The first interval is flat out so I might cover a bit more (120, 130? I'm probably flattering myself). The next one I'm a bit slower, like 5/6 speed. After that, my intervals drop to about 3/4 or less speed. I still get a high heart rate, though. It's just that 10s rest isn't much. The last interval I try to step it up again, but it hurts me afterwards. I did my first session of 20s/10s x 10 on Saturday, and I took a while to recover. Hit my lungs more than my quads on Sat (although they still felt it). I wouldn't mind mixing up the intervals once I finish the program and do some 50m and 75m sprints. Maybe around 8s, 12s, 15s intervals?

Re the guys noticing their poor form. I don't think they do. The gym is the university gym, so a lot of people are students who haven't been lifting for long. They might not know better. Also, most staff are human movement students (fancy name for phys. ed.). None of them are heavy iron lifters with experience under their belt. The personal trainers seem to cater mostly towards middle-aged women. Most clients they take seem to do circuit type workouts with high reps, low weights .

Lol at your vanity! I'm the same. Luckily PTP hasn't made me lose much size so far. Then again, maybe my old workouts were just wrong so they weren't helping me gain size anyway. I wouldn't mind trying something like Pavel's bear sometime, but I'm hooked on PTP. The main reason? No soreness means it doesn't impact my wing chun like my old hypertrophic workouts. I'm sort of scared to try a high-volume workout again because I'm pretty sure I couldn't make it through WC. We do a lot of BWE for warmups, plus a lot of repetitive endurance stuff. I used to find it hard enough doing my old workouts when we did 1hr WC sessions with no warmups. Now I'm with the seniors and we do 2hr with about 30min warmups.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Toby
inic,

One other exercise that I used to love for triceps was close-arm benchpress. You know, the one where your hands are touching in the middle of the bar.

Wow, if they're touching in the middle of the bar that puts a lot of stress on your wrists when you're at the bottom of the ROM. Doesn't it hurt you? I mean, not hurt but it's pretty uncomfortable (I assume you're talking about using a straight bar and not a curl bar). I've heard that you can do "close grip" bench with your hands at the beginning of the knurled grip area and it has the same effect except it saves your wrists.

[Toby]

Yeah, it hurts a bit. I've done it with up to 75kg and it's alright. That's about the max my triceps can handle anyway. Interestingly, it doesn't hurt so much while doing them, but afterwards as you stretch them out. I also wouldn't call it hurt. It's kind of the same feeling as stretching out a tired muscle the next day after a workout. Or an even better analogy would be getting up after a long yoga pose when the blood flows back into your joints. I've also done them with a fist's width between my hands, and thumb touching distance. I do find it much harder the closer you go, so you could probably do it a bit wider with a heavier weight. It's no problem for me anyway. Well, I don't do them anymore anyway, but I didn't ever have a wrist problem from doing them for years.

[IronFist]

Yeah, that's cool. I'm not going to lecture you. Everyone's phisiology is a little bit different. They say it's bad to do pullups behind the neck but I have done them that way for years with no problems, either (knock on wood). So you may be able to do them with no problems. Just remember tho, as always, if it feels like it's being excessively strained, it's probably not good for you.