The real Shaolin-Do techniques thread

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by themeecer
But we are not talking about boxing. Boxers do try to hit each other till they knock the other person out.

Not in sparring.

[themeecer]

Ok then .. we are talking about sparring then.

You are saying my definition of full contact but not full force is what boxers call sparring?

[Water Dragon]

sparring is generally 50 - 70 % power. Why would you want to injure your training partners? Who ya gonna play with then?

[CrippledAvenger]

Yup. Boxers have many different intensity levels for sparring. You can go fifty percent (usual, run of the mill sparring), you can go seventy five percent power (e.g. training for an upcoming bout), etc...

It's not ever broken down into two different styles of fighting, it's just controlling how hard you're hitting. You don't want to seriously injure your sparring partners, but you don't want to tap them either. The closer to the bout you are, the harder you go up to a point. You want to get used to getting hit hard and hitting hard, while avoiding needless injury before the match.

Your definition of full force matches what a boxing match is essentially.

Same goes with Muay Thai or MMA.

[themeecer]

Cool, I learned something here. We are on the same page then on our definition.

Some may feel that only sparring of this caliber and not full force fighting in the ring is bad training, for CMA. I do not.

[Serpent]

OK, I better understand what you mean now. In my mind, full contact is full force, using your definition. Anything else is sparring with a pre-determined level of force decided beforehand. And I'm CMA, not a boxer, so this would appear to be a fairly generic terminology.

[Bluesman]

I counter fight, when I do attack it is setup most of the time with a fake or a feign. The invert to the groin/stomach followed by a round house with the same leg to the head is one that I do for real or will fake or feign. Intentionally missing with a kick, spinning hook is a good example, so that they will rush in to attack because they think I am off balance. This makes it easier to catch them with a counter on the way in. But really what I use depends on them.
Worked out at a Thai fighters house with four of his students for about 2.5 hours on Sundays for 6 months. Would remember to watch for leg kicks and block them the way they showed me as we do not do leg kicks. Found that side kicks were something that they did not see when sparring. Liked their pad work. Would not spar under their rules.
As for what I rely on when sparring, side kick, invert kick, round house, break up my timing. But most important, don't force a technique that I want to use but what is most usefull that is being presented to me.
I try not to rely on speed or power as the person I may be sparring with may have greater speed and power.
Left out the boxer,
Never sparred with one so I would not try to trade punches. Would keep hands up and kick when an opening presented itself. Try sweeping front foot followed with a side kick. Again you can not have preconceived notions what you are going to get away with. I would have to feel them out to see what I can and can not do.
My older brother wrestled in high school so I can do a ok hip toss. The front leg sweep either front or reverse. I do better with the reverse.

[CaptinPickAxe]

I want to crowd my opponent and stick to them

That would put you in a world of hurt against practioners of a throwing art. Thats exactly where I want my opponent, in the clutch.

I used to be primarily a striker, but as of lately I've been trying to think like all my fights will eventually end up in the clutch (as most do). I'll point out some of the habits I'm working to break. In Shuai Chiao a lot of the throws end up with you on one leg. My problem was that I was used to the backwards sweep from shaolin-do. It is okay to keep your feet on the ground as a novice, but as I advance through the system I need to become more comfortable on one foot. Keeping my feet on the ground takes so much power out of my throws. I used to box with my friends when I was younger. Now days I do bookoos of heavy bag work, focus mit training, and 75% sparring. I have to point out that staying fruther away puts my opponent in range for my jab. I used prefer to keep opponents out of the inside with low kicks and jabbing, but now days I'm impartial. I belive it is important to have a great jab.

[Judge Pen]

CPA,

"That would put you in a world of hurt against practioners of a throwing art. Thats exactly where I want my opponent, in the clutch."

Maybe, but, in the words of Chris Berman, "That's why they play the game." I've free sparred against some Aikido peeps and found success. I'm interested in SC and would like to train with some of you guys too. Everytime I fight, I learn something new.

[fa_jing]

"Intentionally missing with a kick, spinning hook is a good example, so that they will rush in to attack because they think I am off balance. This makes it easier to catch them with a counter on the way in. But really what I use depends on them."

I could see this working from time to time, but once you reach a certain level of opponent this is not going to work. Despite the fact that you have intentionally missed and are prepared for the rush, you still have left yourself in a compromised position with your missed kick. You are basically stationary and unable to generate momentum in any direction.


As for the invert kick, I say to you guys, do you really think an invert kick will stop a grown, angry man? You cannot count on it reaching the groin, and it is a weak kick, only making use of the quadriceps muscles and not the stronger glutes. To those that would use this kick as a setup for another kick, it sounds like you think the person will be frozen by your invert kick. That's not necessarily the case.

[fa_jing]

theMeecer: Let's imagine a street fight, where, say, if you let the guy go, he would attack someone else - thus you are forced to incapacitate him. You said that you would leave him lying on the floor. So how is this accomplished? Knockout, chokeout or some other method? You can wear him down with strikes for a time, but eventually you're in the end game. What is your final goal?

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by fa_jing
To those that would use this kick as a setup for another kick, it sounds like you think the person will be frozen by your invert kick. That's not necessarily the case.

No it's not necesarrily the case, but the first kick will stun and probably bring your opponents attention down allowing a clear access to the stronger kick. In Aikido they would call it an 'atemi.'

[fa_jing]

I think alot of people could just walk right through that kick - remember that the chances of having perfect alignment on any strike are low. The kick can be blocked with one hand. Also if you miss with it, you body is in terrible position as you have contorted yourself to be able to deliver the kick. As a non-thrusting kick, there is no structure behind the kick. At least with a round kick you can put your body momentum into it.

Now if you are throwing this kick based on an opening or based on setting up a clean blow with it somehow, that's a completely different story. But remember, I'm asking for bread-and-butter techniques and it sounds like some people may be developing an unhealthy over-reliance on this kick.

[Mr Punch]

Now we have an aikido vs SD scenario being played out on the main board of kungfu magazine forum.

Now before we all ask the mods to move this whole caboodle to Other Related Arts, can we gather round and chant cripple-FIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!! ...





I do like fajing's questions though, and they are worthy of being asked of any style...

[BentMonk]

Did somebody say cripple fight? Where? I'll fight Timmy and Jimmy two on one dang it! They are no match for my Bent Style. I am the only master of Crip Fu. See it says so under my name, so you know it must be true. (all done in best poorly dubbed god awful Chinese accent) lmao Mat