The Wing Chun Karate Connection

[YongChun]

http://www.uechi-ryu.com/oldsite/ele...n_uechiryu.htm

[Phenix]

Very things starts with White Crane from Fujian. Nothing new ....

[Tak]

(Kermit the Frog voice) Someday we'll find it...the Wing Chun Connection...

[reneritchie]

Hendrik is correct. Read the Bubishi. Fujian effected Okinawan and Guangdong MA.

[Mckind13]

I have met Alex Co,

His 5 ancestor fist kung fu could very likely be the ancestor of Karate. Check out the book.

David

[Sam]

Uechi Ryu is more likely connected to Southern Mantis probably Chow or Chu.

[Phil Redmond]

I'm not sure which one but either Wado-Ryu or Uechi-Ryu has something similar to chi sau.

[old jong]

I read somewhere that the symbols that mean empty hand in japanese (Karate) also mean "china hand"
Similarities can be seen between Goju and Hung Gar, Fujian White Crane and others.You don't need to be an historian in the field to see the inter-connections between all the chinese martial arts.They all share many common things.

If I remember well,there were two distinct styles of Karate in the Okinawan beginnings. One was a strong and compact style called; shorei and, a more fluid and mobile style called ;shorin...I think!!!...Shorin is the japanese for "shaolin" as we all know!

Goju came from the shorei branch as kyokushin and others and shotokan,wado and many more came from shorin.
There are also many styles who combine the two original elements.Uechi is one of them as sh ito (the censor won't allow for ****o!!!) and it's many offshots.
The only Wing Chun thing I can see in Karate is the Uechi vertical fist.I never saw chi-sau in Karate but White Crane has sticky hands in a way.

[Phil Redmond]

I remember seeing an article by Hidy Ochia (sp)? and the chi sau exercises in his art. I'll look for the article to see if it was Wado-Ryu or not. I'm not really sure but one of them has chi sau for sure.

[old jong]

It is interresting!
If I remember ,Wado ryu was founded by a certain Otsuka who was a student of shotokan founder ;Funakoshi Gishin.
Otsuka was primarely a Jujutsu expert who introduced a more "soft" approach to his style of Karate.
Wado ryu was also the first true japanese style of karate without background in Okinawa or founded by a non Okinawan.
(Funakoshi was Okinawan)

[reneritchie]

Southern Mantis is essentially a Fujian system not too far removed from White Crane.


Mythical origins of Ming royal family aside, the Hakka (no real connection to the Ming) were a people of the central plains driven south by the strife of invasion. They lived in Fujian for a time, where the helped the Qing battle with the Hokkien. When this didn't work out, they were forced into Guangdong and Guangxi. This may well be where the 'Southern Shaolin' legends come from: the Hakka using the name much as they used 'Southern Mantis' (which had no connection to Wang Lang's Mantis proper).


Given ethnocentrism and xenophobia, it's likely Okinawans learned sets rather than systems, and most likely simple sets such as the numbered ones still found today (like San Jian/Sanchin), etc.

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,



Wado Ryu is a modern art. Its a combo of a few Karate systems from Japan.

Ueichi would be more south chinese looking but unfortunately is very hard! They have some two man set that would be similar to Chi Sao but harder. Forgive the spelling but I think they are called; Katickitai (sounds like: Kah Tick E Tai). Over here we have George Matson who was one of the early or first Americans to learn and teach Ueichi.

On another note. The numerology of Uechi is identical to the numerology of South Mantis taught by Lam Sang of Jook Lum Gee.

Last but not least is what Rene mentioned. The story of the Chu Gar "Ming Royal Family" boxing was nothing that was not heard of before Lao Siu began teaching in 1949 using that name.

They are all Fukien related arts. Even the Jook Lum Gee South Mantis was supposed to come from (or shall I say "settle around") the Mt. Dragon & Tiger (Lung Fu Shan) on the northern boarder of Kwangsai and Fujian.


Regards,
Jim

[Phil Redmond]

Jim,
So was it Ueichi Ryu that has the chi sau "looking" drills?
I wasn't really sure in the first place. I do remember an old article in IKF or BB that linked WC to another Japanese or Okinawan style.

[teazer]

Originally posted by Phil Redmond
Jim,
So was it Ueichi Ryu that has the chi sau "looking" drills?
I wasn't really sure in the first place. I do remember an old article in IKF or BB that linked WC to another Japanese or Okinawan style.

I've seen some single cross-hand sticking drills from Goju, I believe.

[Jim Roselando]

Hey Phil!


Yes! It was Uechi! Certainly one can link WC, Okinawan and other South Chinese arts as they all seem to share that Fukien Crane type art as their base.

The Ueichi people around here have done some extensive research over the years. Most think they come from a South Chinese art known as Pun Guy Noon. Its supposed to be some form of Crane. Next time they bring out someone I may visit as they have seminars with people from PGN.


See ya,