hung gar guy on Discovery channel/ trapping hands

[TenTigers]

First let me clarify; Sifu Hamby is to be applauded. He has done so much for our art, through articles, books, and his appearance on TV-he is to be commended. I also realise that this is another way to promote Gung-Fu to the general public.
Case in point: I just came back from the Beacon Theatre where the Shaolin Warriors show was playing-same show as Wheel of Life. They did all the Ch'i-gung circus acts. They even broke metal bars over their heads-(pot metal, which is cast, is brittle and will break, also if it is over tempered. The bars broke into several pieces=probably would have shattered if dropped), the bowl on the stomach trick-still working on it, but it's basically suction caused by abdominal contraction-(ever get two cups stuck while washing dishes?) and holding the kid up on 5 spearpoints-variation on the bed of nails-which they also did.
The audience was absolurely enthralled! They cheered, oohh'd and aaahhh'd.
The forms were basic wu-shu and gymnastics, nothing spectacular(what was up with the guy upside down serving imaginary food with a three sectioned staff? Huh?) I've seen the Beijing National Team-with Jet Lei, and Yu Shao-Wen-they were much better than these so-called Monks. The Nan Chuan was atrocious-poor connection, sloppy, just plain garbage. But the crowd LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT!!
So, I suppose it will promote interest in Gung-Fu. I only hope that once they realise that all the showboat stuff is not Gung-Fu, that they don't quit. Or, worse still-that charletans don't teach this in class and promote it as the real deal.

[David Jamieson]

In 17th century Holland, the entire economy was based on tulip bulbs. They were what would be today a petro-dollar or gold standard.

Then one day, someone looked at the tulip bulb and said "it's just a flower bulb" The dutch economy collapsed and receded for 25 years following that.


What does this teach us about what we see and are told as compared to what we actually "know" in our hearts and minds?

Having said that, I will add, Chi Kung has little to do with parlour tricks, but if you never demonstrated anything that was even mildly impressive to the uninitiated, then the art would have been lost long ago.

It is unfortunate that some people focus only on the bull s h i t aspects of chinese martial arts, unfortunate indeed, but frankly in the big scheme of things, if you can't dazzle them with brilliance because they are not wise enough to understand it, then baffle then with bull s h i t and they will begin.

eventually they will come to understand on their own what is and what is not.

anyone who has been in a structured discipline for let's say roughly 5 years will likely share the opinion that your views will drastically change as your skill and knowledge develop. Skill and knowledge acquirement washes away assumption, presumption and the doe eyed looks of dazed boys and girls.

cheers

[anton]

^^^Nice post KL. A more recent example of the same phenomenon is the IT bubble. I think a lot of people actually start martial arts with these parlour tricks in mind.. and it takes them some time to realise the true value of what they're learning (well either that or they quit when they realise they don't learn how to break bits of iron on their heads).

[David Jamieson]

well if the iron is not aneeled and is untempered then it is brittle and you can just snap that slag to bits over your head or even over your knee, elbow whatever.

In other words, if you let me pick the iron bar/plate, i will be most impressed if you or anyone in this world can break it over their head

but if you bring your own ala uri geller, I will always doubt it

Chi Kung is literally "breath work" it breaks bad habits we accumulate through life and when incorporated into martial arts it actually streamlines our ability to train and to train properly.

There are of course side effect benefits to ones health from it's practice. But it's purpose has never been to perform all the parlour triacks and BS we see atht is called "chi kung" or "Hei Kung" etc etc. That is all and I mean ALL just a load and merely for entertaining people.

Now some peoples martial skills and conditioning can lead them to do some truly astonishing things there is absolutely no denying it, but to put it simply, practice makes perfect, and correct practice makes even more perfect!

It cheapens things far too much when emphasis is forced to be put on the outrageous merely because the viewer is a dullard looking for entertaining monkey boy tricks.

ridiculous really. but how are some of these guys to make their living otherwise if not fleecing the public with parlor tricks. I mean honestly, how many people do you know who are actually willing to do "real" kungfu training and what is entailed in that training?

Not many. For all you guys that have been in hard core training schools for more than 3 years, think about how many people have come and gone in only that short time? How many more will change in the deck by your fifth year? your 7th? your tenth? when will you leave? Because you have to eventually.

cheers

[ctoepker]

Originally posted by TenTigers First let me clarify; Sifu Hamby is to be applauded. He has done so much for our art, through articles, books, and his appearance on TV-he is to be commended. I also realise that this is another way to promote Gung-Fu to the general public.

Yes, this is what I was trying to say too. Sifu Hamby's kung fu is first rate and we're lucky he can get on TV to raise interest with demonstrations of his power.

Here is a sub-point. Since I agree that this is a good way to get people to sit up and notice, get them in the door and start training...

...isn't it about time we got some new tricks? I mean, martial art stuff from breaking bricks to laying on nails to bending steel are being stolen left right and center by all sorts of groups. If we are to continue drawing crowds and dazzling them to get them interested and beyond the doorstep, shouldn't we come up with something new?

After all, if the Power Team is going around saying they do all these things because of the power of god, and the MTV crowd has seen it all done to death...how in the world are they going to be dazzled and ooohhhing or ahhhing when they come to see us?

What's next for kung fu?

CT

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by ctoepker
What's next for kung fu?

Well, that depends entirely on what you'd like to see kung-fu and its reputation become.

Do you want popular perception of kung-fu to be that of a fighting art? Then do demos that focus on that particular aspect (i.e. San Shou, free sparring, free wrestling, etc.) If you want kung-fu to be seen as a medium for health and healing, demonstrate qi-gong, feats of strength, and flexibility excercizes (a lot of IMA and wu-shu falls in this category for me).

Do you want kung-fu to be seen as an esoteric, quasi-mystical mish-mash of things? Do parlor tricks and make Wuxia films. Perform Lin Kong Jin demonstrations, constantly tell people some of the more dubious Dim Mak applications. Hell, it's worked for the last 40 years or so.

The demo seemed to me to fall into the later category, just because it focuses on tricks that are visually appealing but not necessarily indicitive of any real applications of kung-fu. I'm more impressed by some good san shou, freewrestling, or push hands. These, IMO, give the audience a realistic sense of what they can expect from kung-fu while still remaining interesting.

I don't want anyone to think I'm slagging on Sifu Hamby, or his skills. He seems like a nice guy with some real talent. I'm just a little tired of kung-fu being parlayed as this effortless, magical thing, when I and others put a lot of sweat and blood into our practice.

[Doug]

Hey,

Sifu Hamby and I are students of the same teacher, Sifu Buck Sam Kong, in California. I would like to say a few things.

Just to set the record straight, Sifu Hamby (or Don as I know him) is a real martial artist. I can personally attest that his skills are real, not circus acts. The metal bars he bends are thick and strong; only someone with real skill can do what he can do, such as bend a bar at his throat. I have seen him do this many times, and the bar is truly aimed in his throat. The fact that he can bend it says something about his ability.

If anyone has the opportunity to see Sifu Hamby spar, he will know that the skills he shows for a demonstration are real. Not only can he bend a thick steel bar but he can also use his chi to defend himself (as would any serious, long-term practitioner of Hung Gar). One of my kung fu brothers took a friend of ours to a new year celebration (this friend was a karate practitioner and was pretty big) where Sifu Hamby was going to perform the iron wire demonstration. To test his chi, Sifu Hamby asked our friend to punch him in the stomach. He did but with less force because he was worried he would hurt Don. Sifu Hamby said, "Come on! Really hit me!" With full force, our friend punched his stomach with no effect. It was not a matter of using his strength to avoid pain; he used his chi.

I am happy to hear that no one is claiming Sifu Hamby is a false kung fu practitioner because he would not back down from any challenge or assertion along those lines. I would not want to be that person (therefore, imagine my relief when I hear no such claims!). Anyone can spar with him (friendly or not), and he will not take long to prove his skill. If one thinks his throat is weak, try to hit it--if you can hit it. But do not be surprised if he laughs as he launches a damaging offensive into the defense that he is bound to break.

Doug M

p.s.

By the way, he is not 6'4"--he is not taller than me, and I am 6'2". However, he is as big as a house, and the fact that he can be that big muscularly, use his chi, and move so fast is a testament to the foundational skills that kung fu can provide.

[MasterKiller]

The science of Shaolin

Doesn't have an explanation for the rebarb demo, but there are some others that were mentioned earlier in this thread.

[anton]

Originally posted by EmptyCup
I am not sure what you mean. Could you please explain?

It was my bbq. I put a flaming, yes that means coal on fire on the tongue of the person (one of the sons of a hard chi kung master who was maybe in his mid-teens at this time) and he kept it on his tongue while the flames still kept burning for a few minutes with his tongue in plain view.

I think normal people who tried this would be in serious trouble...

I'm not talking about some warm coal or whatnot...I'm talking about it being so hot it was glowing.

Well I haven't done physics for a while, so I don't know whether anyone could do this or not. I do know that anyone can walk on hot coals, because coal doesn't transmit heat as readily as other materials (say iron at the same temperature). I actually saw a show aboutpsychics with a bunch of people including uri geller showing their tricks and they had a german physicist in the audience. Every time one of these psychics did a trick they'd ask the physicist if he could explain it using physics, and ofcourse for most of the tricks he'd say that without closer inspection under laboratory conditions he couldn't give an accurate description. However when a woman walked on glowing coals he said "this one I can explain" and actually took his socks off walked accross it himself, then started trying to explain the physics in a thick German accent and that "anyone can do it". Funnily enough when the host of the show asked the "psychic" lady if she understood what he was saying, she was like: "yeah I think he's saying that if we get together and love each other and combine our energies, we are capable of anything..." etc...
So yeah I don't know about the tongue thing... then again I don't think I'm going to try it any time soon.

[ctoepker]

Originally posted by EmptyCup
I am not sure what you mean. Could you please explain?

I think normal people who tried this would be in serious trouble...

I'm not talking about some warm coal or whatnot...I'm talking about it being so hot it was glowing.

MasterKiller posted a link that has a breakdown on the hot coals. Check out the video for sure, but in the meantime the site had this to say...

"Soldier monks demonstrate how they can play with fire — or a red-hot iron shovel from the fire — and not get burned. It's a matter of the Leidenfrost effect, so says physicist David Willie. It takes an incredible amount of heat to turn water into steam, more than most people would realize. That heat is used up in that process, and the skin is protected."


More on the Leidenfrost Effect and more Leidenfrost

CT

[TenTigers]

Chriss said we need new tricks, so here's my contribution.:
I think we have to raise the bar, up the ante, kick it up a notch, bring it to another level, sooo. I suggest we start adding San-Gung-spirit possession into our demos. We'll chant some cool mumbo-jumbo (how do you say that in Cantonese? Ngau-see?) and channel in Neo and make wit da mad Kong-Faux skillz.
Let's make a list of who we should channel in:
!, My daughter suggested Micheal Jackson, but I don't think it would be appropriate for children.
2 Bruce Lee? Branden Lee? Lee Marvin? Bruce LeRoy? Lee Meriwether?
3, Taz
4, Jerry Lewis
5, John Belushi
any suggestions?

[ctoepker]

Originally posted by TenTigers
Chriss said we need new tricks, so here's my contribution.:

Hey now! What I was trying to say was kung fu shows have a tradition and that tradition has worked pretty well in getting people interested in the kwoon. I am also saying that other groups are stealing our thunder.

So, I'm trying to ask how we can build on that tradition and keep our thunder for ourselves.

Jerry Lewis need not apply.

CT

[TenTigers]

Bruce Lee and David Carradine did just that. They brought Kung-Fu to the general public and the next thing you knew, everybody was Kung-Fu Fighting! (yeah, David Carradine, in the original series, Kung-Fu, although he didn't know enough to fight Ralph Machio, the series was a tremendous influence on the popularity of Kung-Fu) Unfortunately, there hasn't been anyone to have the same effect. Jacky Chan, Sammo Hung, Jet Lei are all great, but somehow the public never connected them with Kung-Fu exclusively. Too bad. There are Shaolin Monkeys all over town, Wu-Tang Clan

[TenTigers]

Bruce Lee and David Carradine did just that. They brought Kung-Fu to the general public and the next thing you knew, everybody was Kung-Fu Fighting! (yeah, David Carradine, in the original series, Kung-Fu, although he didn't know enough to fight Ralph Machio, the series was a tremendous influence on the popularity of Kung-Fu) Unfortunately, there hasn't been anyone to have the same effect. Jacky Chan, Sammo Hung, Jet Lei are all great, but somehow the public never connected them with Kung-Fu exclusively. Too bad. There are Shaolin Monkeys all over town, Wu-Tang Clan has their own clothing line, Jacky Chan has his own cartoon series, and nobody knows what Kung-Fu is.
And somebody puh-leez answer me this-Why the ***** didn't anyone like Jet Lei, or Jacky Chan ever have Wong Fei-Hung doing HUNG-GA !!!????
ps,Steven Segal definately caused a rekindled interest in Aikido as well. so ya know what we really need-Kung-Fu movies and TV shows that are actually about Kung-Fu.

[Eddie]

Good Post Ten Tigers, just one thing...
the Jacky Chan cartoon is cool.
How can anyone have bief with Jacky