Let's Try This Again-Hey San Shou Guys!

[Mutant]

tit sa = funniest troll here in a long time

fa-jing; not sure what a 'cross-kick' is by your definition...probably has a different name in different schools.

in san shou you can't directly attack against a joint, ei. stomp a knee. you can hit a joint from the back or side though. san da in asia i think its legal to attack the joints though, not entirely sure.

oh wait, you said 'esteemed' san shou peeps. never mind then.... hehehe

[Suntzu]

stomping out someones knees would not be beneficial to both fighter careers....

[Liokault]

I have been in a san shou contest where the stomping of knees from the front was in the rules. But there was also a rule stating that you may not try to hurt your oponent.....someone trying to cover their ass I feel.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
And yet, despite this, it is STILL the correct way to execute the technique

Oh, you!

I'm supposed to be in the Bronx again this summer. We should be staying for a week, so I'm defintely gonna try to pop in sometime and see what your gym is all about, coach. Maybe I'll bring you a cup of coffee if Tit Sa doesn't get there first.

[lkfmdc]

you are more than welcome to drop by, especially if you bring coffee

I am not a master though, so you can not kill me

[Suntzu]

i heared of attacking the knee of the bent leg being allowed.... but not being allowed to attack a staightened leg...... i've seen sidekicks and 'stomp' kicks delivered to the front of the thigh....

[fa_jing]

To me a cross kick is a 45 degree downward stomping kick with the foot turned out. It could be used effectively to the front of the thigh, especially against the opponent's base leg if he's in the middle of a kick. You can also apply it at punching range, to attack the knee, especially if your hands are tied up with his. If you are behind the opponent, you can kick out his knees from behind.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by fa_jing
To me a cross kick is a 45 degree downward stomping kick with the foot turned out. It could be used effectively to the front of the thigh, especially against the opponent's base leg if he's in the middle of a kick. You can also apply it at punching range, to attack the knee, especially if your hands are tied up with his. If you are behind the opponent, you can kick out his knees from behind.

We call it Dragon Stepping. a la Xing Yi

[Tak]

From personal experience: Bringing the kick up in an arc from the ground is prett much asking to have elbows repeatedly driven into the foot you kick with. Chambering and driving in allows you to punish them instead of them punishing your foot.

My experience is the opposite, my reasons being the ones I stated before. Also, I don't know if you understood me about the arc. First, the foot comes mainly up, but slightly out, until it's just underneath the level you want to strike, then it moves mainly outward, still slightly rising, through contact. This, however, is not the same as up, then back, then out.

Thank you Golden. If you don't chamber the kick you can get jammed by a advancing fighter of the Muay Thai kick block. We train our fighters to think of kicking over a chair with the seat facing away form you. We also use a saw-horse and have people stand with their lead leg almost touching it and make them kick a pole bag over the saw-horse.

OK, wtf can't the kick be jammed if you chamber it? You begin to chamber the leg, the opponent advances, jams you, and you're stuck standing there on one leg with nowhere to go.

We train similarly to the sawhorse as well, and we don't have problems. Chambering the leg doesn't get you any height, it just takes time and makes you look like you do TKD. Plus, how are you supposed to chamber the leg on a crossover (not cross-behind/steal step) sidekick? Do you bring the leg all the way around the body to chamber it? For that matter, how do you chamber effectively on the steal step sidekick? The leg is already drawn back as you step; it's pointless to pick the knee way up.

Now Tak would say you cannot get power this way and all I will say is this is how Marvin Perry kicks and although I don't know you, he kicks harder then you do. You can see the side kick being used on our web page. Look at the clips of Marvin, Albert Pope and Mike Norman, they use them the most.

Sure, and there are guys that pull buses with their genitalia, but I'm not going to advocate the practice. The question is not whether Marvin Perry kicks harder than I do, the question is which way Marvin Perry could kick harder. Also, Royce will choke you out.

[Tak]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
'nuther ???? my MT coach recommneded throwing the kick with the knee pointing down, kicking with the heel. I played with this, and I kinda like it. What does the San Shou crowd think about knee position on this kick?

That's how I tend to throw the back kick (which is essentially a sidekick), as well as sidekicks at some angles. In lots of cases, though, it puts extra torque on the hips, and makes my upper body lean more (for kicks above thigh level), rather than remaining CMA-upright.

Disclaimer: I'm not a member of "the San Shou crowd," and my opinion on sidekick technique is currently in disfavor on this thread.

[SanShou Guru]

Tak if you had said this the first time

"My experience is the opposite, my reasons being the ones I stated before. Also, I don't know if you understood me about the arc. First, the foot comes mainly up, but slightly out, until it's just underneath the level you want to strike, then it moves mainly outward, still slightly rising, through contact. This, however, is not the same as up, then back, then out"

I would have agreed with you. This is mostly how we want the kick to go. We do not want up then chamber then kick. Up and chamber are one move. I thought you were saying out as you come up.

All sidekicks can be jammed but the better the camber the harder it is to jam well. If you chamber well you should be able to throw a lead leg side kick with your hand on their shoulder, that close.

As far as heel up (mule kick), is a strong kick but it tends to leave you out of position to do much else afterwards.

[Tak]

I would have agreed with you. This is mostly how we want the kick to go. We do not want up then chamber then kick. Up and chamber are one move. I thought you were saying out as you come up.

I'm saying nearly straight up, maybe a little out. As opposed to up and intentionally drawing the leg and foot way back across the body and turning so that you look like a Scooby Doo[tm] character getting ready to take off running.

All sidekicks can be jammed but the better the camber the harder it is to jam well. If you chamber well you should be able to throw a lead leg side kick with your hand on their shoulder, that close.

I would almost never throw one from further (LOL @ blocking far ther) away than that anyway.

[fa_jing]

I think both ways of kicking are valid, and a few more. My Sifu would explain it as "The Chinese like to kick from every angle."