Wing Chun, Yip Man and Sifu Ross

[jimbob]

Not sure who else here visits the Underground forum but for those of you missing it, Sifu Ross has opened a jkd Pandora's box over there, and bless his furry little self, has the jkd population in quite a dither. David if you're reading this - inspired stuff mate!

In amongst it all, he raised some interesting points about Yip Man - his frail health, his "distractions" shall we say, that supposedly curtailed his teaching abilities.

Now - I know very little about wing chun and I have no desire to start more $hit here. But these thoughts crossed my mind in reading Sifu Ross's arguments.

If much of the wing chun we see comes to us through the Yip Man lineage (certainly seems to be a point of some prestige for a wing chun person), and Yip Man perhaps wasn't as capable a teacher as he could have been, and his students perhaps were not taught as completely as they might have been, before they themselves began spreading the word, then what is the true state of wing chun as most of us know it today?

I have visions of Japanese karate - a highly watered down misunderstood facsimilie of something else that has become shackled to tradition and ritual, and which has little bearing on either self defense or fighting. Of course, we could probably apply that statement to a lot of TCMA's too - but it was the wing chun example that grabbed me after reading Sifu Ross's post.

So - knowledgeable and open minded friends, I would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks

Jim

[Serpent]

Any chance of a link to Ross's post?

[SifuAbel]

"and bless his furry little self"


Laughed so hard my liver jumped out and started picketing against the unfair treatment of my lungs.

[Wingman]

I suggest you take this thread to the wing chun forum. I'm sure you will open another Pandora's box over there.

[jimbob]

Wingman

I have no intention of opening another Pandora's Box. What I'm asking, I could ask about a lot of traditional Chinese arts - it's just that Sifu Ross's comments about Yip Man made me curious about wing chun - especially as it is one of the more popular systems of kung fu in the western world. I do hope he sees this thread and drops in to say hello.

And Sifu Abel - glad to put a smile on your face, mate!

Cheers

Jim

[jimbob]

Serpent

I can't seem to post a link direct to that thread. Head over to mma.tv and look for the thread titled "Bruce Lee; The Myth". there's some good interesting stuff there.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Let see if this works:

Bruce Lee; the MYTH

[edit]
Seems to work just fine.
[/edit]

[lkfmdc]

Being of Eastern European descent, I am quite furry and quite proud of it, so rock on

Sadly, none of the tools over there have been able to address ANY of the legit questions raised over there.

As for Yip Man lineage, the fortunate thing about the opening of China to the outside world over the last 10 years or so has been that we see OTHER lineages of Wing Chun. When you see them, you can't HELP but ask questions.

Of course, when you do, the "true believers" lose their minds...

It's so much fun!

[yenhoi]

What does Bruce Lee have to do with JKD or WCK nowadays?



Of course, One more for Lamar Davis.

[old jong]

What a troll!...

[lkfmdc]

For the "JKD concepts" guys, Bruce means very little these days, they are basicly doing MMA and are so far removed from what he did it isn't even funny

For the rest however, they still every day quote Bruce and do everything based upon what he did, and since he said some pretty silly things, they are a pretty silly lot, and the "cult of personality" surrounding him is pathetic

[SifuAbel]

"I read the "sifu" Lamar thread and had to stop myself from laughing, really JKD people need to officially call what they do a religion since they try and turn Bruce Lee into some sort of god.

Bruce Lee's formal martial arts training? Let's just get down to the facts. Tai Chi in the mornings with his dad in the park and about 8 months of Wing Chun. *( there is no upper case 8 ) months under a man who only taught to support his opium habit, habitually showed disinterest in teaching and who was known to fall asleep during class. After Bruce became a "big star" he went back to the class in Hong Kong and found out he couldn't even hang with the beginners anymore, so he created his own style. Be the big man in your own style as opposed to no one in your origianal school. "

Its a good start, the religion of Bruce is everywhere. In 200 years or so he will replace jesus.

I must say that I've encounted this "Leeism" many times.

I wouldn't say BL was an inferior fighter. But I still don't follow what he says like gospel. Many just repeat what bruce said like a bible passage instead of trying to get to the deeper possibility. "But Bruce said......." Of course, To contradict the "ultimate source" is blasphemy. I tell people that, imo, Bruce needed more time to better structure his explanations of his philosophy. He needed to get a little older and be less the 60's drama queen he was. And they respond like I just dissed jhesus and the bible. When you look at whats happening to JKD you see why I think this. Bruce was the ultimate inclusionist, he tryed to absorb from many different sources. Today JKD is becomeing more and more exclusionist and just trys to reduce what even the paticular instructor teaches down gen. to gen..

[SifuAbel]

Ch, Ch, Ch, Chia............

I think one of us should shave before we fight since we might get stuck together like velcro.

[lkfmdc]

I refuse to shave my legs, they are my best asset...

Anyone notice how I punk'd the queen of sambo on that thread?

"you name the time and place", I did, and then 150 excuses why suddenly he couldnt' do it

[Meat Shake]

"I think one of us should shave before we fight since we might get stuck together like velcro."

Thats not a pleasant mental image.
WHeres the eew face when you need it?