Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Kungfu and its 'masters' are a sham.

  1. #1

    Post Kungfu and its 'masters' are a sham.

    There, got you!

    Hello everybody.

    Pt 1

    I went to the world HQ of my kungfu style in Town A, shall we say.

    I contacted them before and askedif it was ok for me to come down and have a look and maybe cross some hands, and they said yeah sure, just give us a call before you come. So I gave them a call, and they said yeah sure, just come on down... I said how do I get in, they said just wait, there'll be a lot of people comingand going.

    So I went. I waited. Nobody came. I waited some more. Still nobody. Waiting at the door.

    Eventually I got in, and went on up. Met a guy who I recognised as a well-known second gen student of the most renowned (late) GM, and his one student. Neither of them were doing anything. Introduced ourselves, exchanged pleasantries. He said there was no point me staying and watching cos his class was about to finish (there was only one guy there anyway like I said, but that ws fair enough, it was like early afternoon on a weekday) and they weren't relly doing anything (and that was a fact!).

    I wondered why he hadn't said that in the first place, but politely thanked him and left.

    Called again later. Same story (come on down).

    So I went. I waited. Nobody came. I waited some more. Still nobody. Waiting at the door. Eventually I rang the doorbell.

    Nothing. I waited. Nobody came. I waited some more. Still nobody. I rang again. still zero. I rang the super. He grudgedly let me in.

    Fat old guy, bottle-bottom glasses hang off dripping nose, string beater... didn't recognise (but who was doubtless a really well-renowned ), GM's first gen student was there. No students (again not really remarkable - still afternoon, same weekday). this time the iron gate is over the door, and he doesn't look like he has any intention of opening it.

    He asks me the usual: how long who what forms, why did I come to Town A?

    I answer: Long time, Sifu X(he knew), Sifu Y(he knew) Sifu Z (he didn't), all of them, to find a sifu I could train with when I come to Town A (which isn't all that far) since I don't haae a sifu now since I moved again.

    He says (accusing like I wasn't loyal enough to stick with one sifu, when in fact I've moved around a lot): Your forms are from different people, different lineage, so your kungfu gonna be no good.

    I said Maybe, but that's one reason I want to find a sifu, to consolidate my training. He says which sifu? I said, a good one, whose style is not to far from mine, who will accept me, and who I can stick with, since I now live closer to Town A.

    He said come back and talk to Sifu G and Sifu H (Sifu X and Y's sifus), and I said, well to be honest, I don't see my kungfu as being so close to theirs anymore, as I trained with their students a long time ago, so there isn't so much of a connection, and they might not even like me trying to say there was. So out of respect to them, I didn't think it was necessarily a good idea.

    He said: You don't have a school, so how are you gonna find a sifu?
    I say: So how do I join a school?
    He said: Find a sifu.

    You get the picture.

    25 minutes. Catch 22 made funny book and movies. Real life it aint so funny.

    So eventually I say, Well can I just watch what you and maybe cross hands with someone, and come back later? He says no, he's not really doing anything etc.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by kagami; 10-30-2003 at 07:27 PM.
    On reflection.

  2. #2
    Pt 2

    So dispointed with the HQ, I go another kwoon. This guy (GMs sec gen) is known for acceptance of others lineages, and for picking up ****ed off with the HQ people!

    He knows I'm coming too, we'd contacted before.

    Wait for half an hour after the lessons supposed to start. No problem, he comes, he's a nice guy, very talkable and very approachable, bit gruff, lots of real life experience. He really loves our kungfu style, and pratcises and teaches for it's beauty and practicality (he was LEO for more years than I've been alive).

    He lets me watch the class, while we joking about politics in kungfu. Makes some comments about different drills, practice techniques etc.

    End of the class, I say, what now? Can I come back tomorrow and maybe cross hands a little?

    He says What re you gonna learn in one day? And anyway, you have to pay one month.

    I say, well , sorry but thats a bit expensive for me now, can I not just pay maybe two thirds of that just to cross hands with your people. He says, but I will have to correct your technique. I said thank you but, you said yourself, you cannot understand somebody's kungfu by looking at it, then you say look at my kungfu, you know its the best, but I'd like to cross hands to FEEL it before I pay one month fee for a few days. Please, thank you etc, very very respectful ( I'm not even that respectful to my mother!... and I'm not being false either, because of course I really appreciate a good teacher, if that's what I find).

    He says, show me your A position (a hand position, not even any particular stance). I know what's coming, but I give him my best A. A has some variations, minor things, like maybe a few centimeters here and there, but basically it's one simple position and without anyone on the end of it, you ca't really tell how good it is anyway maybe. He say, no hesitation: that's no good.

    Show me position B. I show him, and surprise surprise, no that's no good, you see!

    Position C. I'm like OK and give him one like the same as his boys, to the nth degree. He looks for a moment or two, to 'decide', and then says... you guessed it!

    So no dice, I think.

    He says you see, I have to correct you so you can see why my kungfu is good and yours is... he trails off...

    I say, but you haven't felt it. (I wanted to say 'Tell me where its wrong then at least!!!' - his teaching in class was minimum, though his boys did LOOK good.)

    He doesn't say anything.

    No dice.

    I'm not made of money, I work hard, and I don't see why I should not follow this guys own advice and pay for something I don't know.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    On reflection.

  3. #3
    Pt 3

    This post is not sour grapes.. But I know this board and you don't know me, so I can see how a Duty of Care might grow up!!!

    I'm sorry it's long, but I thought it might be interesting for some of you, especially those who look to the East.

    Most of this post is for colour and background.

    My real points are:

    Pt 1:
    1) We all practiced in the same style, and the differences in the lineage are not that huge. Kungfu should boil down to fighting, so the differences in one position shouldn't matter so much till its on the end of someone else.

    2)I don't know if it was

    a) Racism (I'm not Chinese), er sorry, ancient Chinese tradition.

    b) Chinese waiting at the door awkward circular logic test tradition to see if you are 'ready', 'patient', 'loyal' etc... Ok so this guy doesn't know me but, I'm there so I'm obviously READY, I've practice for many years, so I'm obviously patient, and as for loyality, sorry, I'm not going to pledge loyality to anyone I don't know the skills of!

    c) Just this old fat guy relegated to looking after the kwoon on slow weekday afternoon!

    3) If he had any doubts he should have tried me!

    Pt 2

    1) He made a big thing of letting me watch the class to see for myself how good his boys are. He also made a big thing about not judging people until you feel them... Contradict!? Then he wouldn't let me feel them!!!

    2) OK, so I appreciate, I've put in a lot of years, but nothing compared to some of these guys. Why should he let me test him? Who am I? Well answer one is plain business. OK traditional Chinese stuff aside, China is having to open up, it is having to (and seems happy to) adopt global business style... and I was gonna be a loyal, returning, paying customer, so why not give me a real sample!!!???

    Answer two is, this guy was talking how he loves kungfu for its own sake, how he loves the action, the movement the strategy, the practical fighting!... was he not slightly interested in my kungfu? Sounds arrogant but look this way, if I am a teacher, I want to try my hand with everyone, anyone, any style, not some crazy beimo thing, just plain friendly fighting. Didn't sound very credible.

    3) How many of you can tell how good someone's fighting skills are from three separate hand positions? I know you can get some things by seeing stances, transition between footworks etc, but please.

    The bottom line is, they must have many many crazies coming and challenging them from all over the world, but they are selling fighting art and all of their questions, all of their doubts about my sincerity, who I am etc, would be answered if they had crossed hands!

    Sorry for the rant. Just a few comments. Now does anyone want a fight?!
    Last edited by kagami; 10-30-2003 at 07:30 PM.
    On reflection.

  4. #4
    unfortunate,
    i never experienced anything like that before, i'm not chinese neither is my sifu, but his sifu is. my experience , as for alot of others in a similar bckgrnd. is different from this. are you in the eastern world?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    4,418
    Gokky?
    cxxx[]:::::::::::>
    Behold, I see my father and mother.
    I see all my dead relatives seated.
    I see my master seated in Paradise and Paradise is beautiful and green; with him are men and boy servants.
    He calls me. Take me to him.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    258
    Nothing speak
    My intent is to kill you, my heart wants you dead, my mind thinks of you dead, when I strike its to kill you - Sifu.

    You are only as strong as your horse - Sigung Leung Cheung.

  7. #7
    christ, that really is terrible. When I told my sifu that I had done a few years in karate he didn't mind at all, and thats from a different COUNTRY, let alone style. Personally if he was that rude to me I would forget him and go elsewhere. And as for trying to make you pay for the entire month just from watching one lesson... I dont know how it works in america but over here, our Sifu lets people have 2 or 3 free lessons to see if it suits them or not. and even then a months fees are 25 dollars NZ, which is about 12.50 american. the again, that might be where new zealand has MUCH closer ties to china than america and martial arts aren't a "big secret" that requires the magic of money to be unlocked.
    "If there is no grand plan; if there is no big picture; if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Southern England
    Posts
    2,073
    No way would I learn from that guy. That would be my first reaction.

    But, having said that, he may still be the best teacher in your area despite his seeming money grubbing attitude.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    3,170
    How long have you trained? With whom? Where are you?

    Perhaps people on here can make recommendations. Be a little more helpful than ranting perhaps.


    Stuart B.
    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    1,168
    well it seems the only way to get what you want is to walk right in and offer up a challenge.
    I know at least several schools that I could travel to that all offer free trial lessons first before putting on the hard sell. Still I don't think there are that many schools that would allow you to cross hands on a whim. You have logical reasons for wanting to do so based on your experience but it is still uncommon for potential students to come in and want to "test" it right away. I can see how it may come off as a bit brash, but just the same the way you explained it seemed that you were communicating that you genuinely wanted to learn and you simply wanted to find something similar to what you left off at.
    Either way it looks like you got the short end of the stick so to speak. Good luck in the future

  11. #11

    typical

    Unfortunately, that's pretty typical attitude among Chinese sifus.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •