blacktsun- Your misperception of BJJ

[Knifefighter]

Based on your post regarding BJJ, you have never trained with or against anyone who knows BJJ. Here is why:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blacktsun:
Mr. Ryman is a certified Tae Kwon Do instructor, and he teaches tkd. As side
classes (no extra charge) he has gracie jiu jitsu,
The instructor's name is Greg Ryman. He has a blue belt and trains under
Horance [/quote] If your story is true, the gentleman you are talking about is not a Gracie jui-jitsu instructor. I train at the Gracie Academy and know all the instructors in the instructor program. Also there is no Horance Gracie.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blacktsun:
Just out of curiousity, is it standard practice at bjj schools to require students
to sign a three year contract with only three days to decide if you like the
class and end the contract? [/quote] No, Gracie Jiu-Jistsu requires no contracts. All training associations that would be run by blue belts would charge a small fee of 10 to 20 dollars per month.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blacktsun:
The first class was a
blast, but Mr. Ryman wouldn't show myself or my friend anything that we
didn't already know.
There are a few differances in actual moves, but they are few and far
between, and not worth arguing over. [/quote] ThatÂ’s because you werenÂ’t training in Brazilian jiu jitsu. I guarantee I could show you hundreds of moves you have never seen before.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blacktsun:
He may consider bjj unbeatable, but I've beaten it. Hell, I beat it in his
school during the interductory course.[/quote] ThatÂ’s because you have not fought against a BJJ trained fighter, but rather students from a TKD instructor who is pretending to teach it.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blacktsun:
If a bjj stylist can force the monkey to slow down to the prefered bjj pace,
then the bjj stylist has it won. [/quote]
Some BJJ techniques are done slowly. Some are done extremely quickly. I also guarantee that I can perform BJJ techniques as fast or faster than you can perform techniques from Monkey Kung Fu.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blacktsun:
I haven't found ANY other bjj schools in the area.[/quote] That is why you have never had the chance to go against a BJJ practitioner, but just one from a fake TKD school.

[wisdom mind]

sorry knife, but i had to respond.

any seminarz on BJJ in NYC ever?
the classes are like 135 a month which is way to high for I...

thanx

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i dont like your attitude. i dont like you.

[Chameleon]

Knifefighter -

I went to this site to look at the instructors.

No Mr. Ryman.

Could you explain what the different belt rankings mean. There are a couple of blue belt levels in my area.

Also, what is the belt progression in BJJ, and how long does it take to be able to effectively utilize techniques?

[Knifefighter]

GunnedDownAtrocity:
So? Is that supposed to bother me?

wisdom mind:
Steve Kardanian (sp?) has a training association in New York and often hosts seminars.

Chameleon:
Belt rankings are: white; blue; purple; brown; black. It takes from 2 to 4 years to advance through each level. A person with 6 to 8 months experience will be very effective against someone who is not familiar with the ground, especially if they have some standing art as a base.

[DragonzRage]

From what I've seen there are too many karate/TKD McDojos around that are trying to jump on the Bjj success by offering some half-a$ Bjj instruction beside the crap that they specialize in. It's ridiculous.

BTW, Horance Gracie??? LOL!!!

[blacktsun]

Knifefighter,

This is part of the reason I started the string. I wanted to check up on this guy. I wanted to know if this was the real deal. If you check my prior post on the subject, I asked if he was what he was trying to appear to be. Everyone came back with a postive, go ahead. So, I may have had a misconception of what real gracie jiu jitsu is, I at least made the effort to check on what I should be looking for.

When everyone came back with a go ahead, and things turned out the way they did ... well, I hope you can see where the misconception came from. I made my comparisons based on what everyone here said appeared to be good. If I am way off base, as you say I am, then, please, accept my apology.

But, I have fought others who claim to know bjj. My kicking their ass, then saying so, is no differant than others kicking the ass of kung fu wanna be's, and proclaiming themselves the master of all fighting. Granted, the "bjj stylists" I fought were probobly just as fake as the kung fu stylists that many people I've seen on here beat.

Please consider what I said here, and don't misconstrue it as an attack on bjj. It's not. It's just my side of the coin.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

kinifefighter, no it shouldnt bother you. the only reason i said that at all was because it appears your putting bjj up on a platform high above kung fu. you said "that I can perform BJJ techniques as fast or faster than you can perform techniques from Monkey Kung Fu." that just sounds arrogant. were you simply defending your art against previous attacks, or were you really trying to say that your bbj shall defeat any kung fu wimp muahahahaha? if i misconstrued what you were trying to get accross i offer my appologies. if i hit the nail on the head then i have to stick with not liking you.

[Chameleon]

Knifefighter -

Thanks for your responses. I have a few more qestions, if you don't mind?

What is the difference between all the different schools (Liboni, Carlson, Machado, etc.) Is the content all pretty much the same?

What does it mean to achieve belt rankings at the lower level (blue, purple, etc.)? I've heard that it is based on fighting ability, and that you cannot get promoted unless you've proven effective?

Is this also true for the degrees of black? Or are they based on knowing more techniques? Or do the different black levels start becoming an honorary kind of thing?

Thanks.

[SifuAbel]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Knifefighter:
GunnedDownAtrocity:
So? Is that supposed to bother me?

wisdom mind:
Steve Kardanian (sp?) has a training association in New York and often hosts seminars.

Chameleon:
A person with 6 to 8 months experience will be very effective against someone who is not familiar with the ground, especially if they have some standing art as a base.
[/quote]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Be more specific. Are you saying that someone with less than a year of experience can take out anyone? Without getting seriuosy injured by, lets say, someone who has five years experience in a standing art(whatever that is)?

[Knifefighter]

GunnedDownAtrocity:
I was addressing the misconception that blackstun had regarding the speed of techniques of BJJ. I wasnÂ’t saying that BJJ could or couldnÂ’t defeat anyone, just that many of the techniques are performed at very fast speeds.

SifuAbel:
To be more specific, it is my belief that a BJJ practitioner with 6 months to a year of training, will beat 90% of fighters who donÂ’t have ground experience -IF- the BJJ player can get the opponent to the ground. A BJJ player who has a standing art as a base, will have a much better chance of getting his opponent down to the ground.

To use myself as an example, I had trained in standup arts for over 15 years before I began training in BJJ. I regularly sparred with a group of other standup artists all of whom were as good or better than me. After about 6 months of BJJ training, I could pretty much take every one of them out at will within a few minutes and some of them outweighed me by close to 100 lbs. It got so bad that they would only spar with me if I didnÂ’t use BJJ.

Chameleon:
The content of most BJJ schools is pretty much the same in terms of the basics. There are variations in advanced techniques, depending on the focus of the particular school. For instance, a school training for Vale Tudo would have slightly different techniques than one that was training for BJJ competitions.

Belt rankings above white are earned from a combination of sparring ability and knowledge of techniques. While most schools donÂ’t require it, doing well in competitions and challenge matches tends to speed up progression through the ranks. I believe the degrees of black are more related to teaching ability.

[blacktsun]

Knifefighter,

I agree with part of what you said. A bjj stylist has a good chance of beating many fighters... on the ground. The same can be said for any form of grappling. I wished to learn bjj to add to my monkey, which also has alot of ground fighting.

One last thing, to guarrentee a product with out being properly familiar with the competition only sets you up to look like an idiot.

[LEGEND]

KNIFEFIGHTER is very accurate in his info on BJJ...
Most standup fighter do not know what to do against a takedown tech...they presume that they can KO a guy attempting a takedown...standup fighters must learn to counter a takedown...by sprawling or so forth to stop a takedown realistically...if a standup fighter is taken to the ground it's OVER within SECONDs! Most "pure" standup guys on the ground would extend a limb or turn their back exposing a neck...of course the BJJ guy would win! There are cases of standup fighter with good anti-takedown techs who have KO a BJJ guy...PRIDE has a fighter named IGOR VORCHIN that has KO several BJJ guys...observed his technique...

[Knifefighter]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blacktsun:
...to guarrentee a product with out being properly familiar with the competition only sets you up to look like an idiot. [/quote]

I guaranteed two things, both of which I know quite a bit about.
1- I guaranteed I could show you hundreds of moves from BJJ that you had not seen if you had not studied BJJ. I have studied many styles and have yet to find any style that does not have a plethora of techniques that is unique to that particular style. BJJ is no different . It has literally thousands of techniques, a large portion of which are particular to BJJ only.
2- I guaranteed that I could perform techniques form BJJ as fast or faster than those you do in monkey. I know this because my field of expertise is exercise science and I know that human movement speed has certain parameters. The movement patterns of many BJJ techniques are at the maximum range for speed parameters.

[blacktsun]

But, Knifefighter, don't those perameters change from person to person? I think this is true because I've known people who, despite whatever training their tried, who could not match my speed. For that matter, there are people that I've never been able to match as far as technique speed goes. I've tried several methods and have gotten faster with each method, but some peoples limits are higher than others.