Matrix Didn't Suck: REVOLUTIONS spoilers

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
I originally thought this too, but in Reloaded he says, "Mark my words, boy, I survived your predecesors, and I will survive you, too" which lead me to believe he was not one the previous "ones." This is why I initially took him to be the Satan figure, but after Revoltions there is no doubt that Smith is the embodiment of that role.

Yeah, he did say that, but Persephone said to Neo that the Merovengian was once like you and I took that as once the savior. Maybe he was the first?

[MasterKiller]

No, in the Animatrix, they mention the first "One" died of unexplained causes.

[@PLUGO]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
No, in the Animatrix, they mention the first "One" died of unexplained causes.

when was that mentioned?

which episode in the Animatrix?

[MasterKiller]

Actually, I got that info from an article published by the Associated Press. They used this timeline. Notice the 2105-2150 line.

2010-60 -- Humans create humanoid drone robots with artificial intelligence to fill jobs as construction laborers and servants.

2069 -- The hovercraft transport ship Nebuchadnezzar, later to be captained by Morpheus, is constructed in the United States.

2075 -- AI programs evolve and some robots began to resent their human overlords.

2077 -- In the first case of a machine rising up against its owners, the butler robot B166ER slaughters two humans, leading to B166ERs eradication and a backlash against robots and artificial intelligence.

2080-85 -- Rioting and violence against machines prompts robots to flee major cities and establish their own community -- known as Zero One -- in a remote part of the Middle East.

2085-2095-- Zero One thrives, creating superior vehicles, computers and weaponry and decimating the economies of many human nations, which now lack the machine-based labor that made them strong.

2096-- United Nations officials refuse to accept the robot civilization of Zero One as a sovereign nation. A trade blockade of robot goods leads to war.

2097 -- Zero One survives a nuclear attack -- its inhabitants are impervious to the heat and radiation and casualties are quickly replaced. Counterstrikes launched against humans.

2098 -- As cities fall beneath the might of mechanized forces, desperate military leaders attempt to block the main source of energy for the robot city: the sun. The plan destroys the atmosphere and fills the sky with choking black smoke -- but does not stop the machines.

2099-- Machine forces overtake human armies and capture survivors and civilians for experimentation, determining that human bio-electricity can be harnessed to replace the sun's energy.

2100 -- Machines create the Matrix, a dreamlike world set in 1999, to extend the lives of the comatose human batteries.

2105 -- The first human known as The One, locked in bondage inside the Matrix, learns he can manipulate the world through thought and manages to break free. Seeks sanctuary in the underground human stronghold of Zion.

2105-2150 -- Zion resistance movement created, although The One later dies under unexplained circumstances.

2161 -- Morpheus born in a Matrix womb; freed in childhood.

2167 -- Trinity born in a Matrix womb; freed in early childhood.

2175 -- The Oracle prophesizes that Morpheus will discover the second coming of The One.

2199 -- Trinity and Morpheus discover Neo, a hacker in the Matrix. They free him and do battle with Agent Smith, a program designed to rid the Matrix of humans who detect its flaws.

2201 -- The Osiris, another human rebellion ship, discovers machines drilling through the Earth above Zion. Crew members send a message through the Matrix to their compatriots shortly before being destroyed.

2201 -- Now living in Zion and working with the rebellion against the machines, Neo encounters The Architect, the artificial intelligence program that created the Matrix.

2201 --The Architect reveals that the Matrix places rebellious humans in Zion, which it then targets for destruction, thus eradicating bugs in its system. He states that Zion has been destroyed five previous times -- suggesting the Matrix may be much older than he thinks.

[illusionfist]

I liked Revolutions too. I was initially pretty worried because I had some friends that watched it in the morning and they didn't like it. For the most part, based from my friends comments and what i have read, etc, I think the people that were disappointed with it were the ones that wanted the entire ending spelled out for them. The ending of the movie was philosophically open, so I think many were looking for a resolution with certain finality. Either that or they made the mistaken notion of just watching it for the fighting, which I think most MA'ists will argue is pretty crappy.

Actually, thats probably something I really didn't like about Revolutions. When Smith and Neo are in that warehouse type place at the end and they are fighting (where they are fighting infront of the windows and they are back lit), Neo's kicks just looked terribly labored, and that wasn't from an acting standpoint (i.e. acting tired, etc). I know he had a spinal injury that inhibited him from kicking much in the original Matrix, but I thought he got a greenlight for the other two? In many of the shots though, you can clearly tell its his double.

I've said this before, but the Matrix movies themselves can be literally seen as a philosophical "Rorshach Test." Whatever philosophy you jive with will most likely be reflected in the Matrix. With me personally, I can see where people would see the Christian angles in it, but I truly think there is a lot of eastern philosophy in there. No matter what though, you can't deny the messiah overtones.

The basic elements are very archtypal, so you'll see many philosophies. Order vs Chaos, Good vs Evil, etc. Somebody mentioned before that they thought Smith was a Satan figure. In my opinion he doesn't really embody a Satan figure because he's clearly made to be Neo's opposite. They compliment each other really. It's clear that the Oracle embodies chaos or disorder and the Architect is order and structure and Neo and Smith are agents for those concepts (even though Smith goes rogue). Even though the Good vs Evil archtype can be seen, I think they were actually trying to stay away from that concept and how it relates to religious dogma. Neo's actions are all dictated by a machine world construction and not a supreme being or diety.

Also you have the irony of Smith becoming what he once despised. In the original movie, he disdains humans for spreading like a virus, yet he later starts spreading himself to take over the Matrix. His pursuit for power and autonomy basically actualized and made him into the thing he didn't understand.

Bottomline, the movies definitely give you some good philosophical debates to explore. It definitely made me go back and read some old school skeptic thought (ala Descartes and Unger). I just feel sorry for the folks that didn't really explore the deeper meanings of the movie and just wanted to watch them for the "eye candy."

Peace

[Starchaser107]

I totally enjoyed the matrix revolutions , It was everything I could have hoped for , riveting, action packed but not too much emphasis on the convoluted martial arts, the pieces of the puzzle coming together nicely, and generally just a refreshing Epic story relevant to our 21st century tastes.

I loved how neo becomes the sacrificial lamb, becomes blinded, and then martyrs himself to save the world.
Almost felt like rejoicing when the klutz boy ran to announce the news that the war was over in sheer exhuberance.
I have no qualms about how it ended, I think it was (for want of a better term) Realistic, in a sense.

I can see why other people might have wanted more , but , I think it was left open deliberately and rightfully so. because Nothing is ever so cut and dry.

As for Marovingian, I wanted to see a bit more of him in depth, so for him and persephone alot of unresolved issues there. We know thtat he creates programs, we know rogue programs hate him, I'm not sure if we look at it comparitively in a biblical sense that we are going to find necessarily a parallell.

It will be fun searching the web for info though.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
No, in the Animatrix, they mention the first "One" died of unexplained causes.

Or maybe a subsequent One. They could have went into more detail. Wasn't the "Merovingians" a Germanic tribe known for their cruelty?

[Starchaser107]

actually they were french , and claimed to be of the same bloodline as jesus.

here is more info

http://www.matrix-explained.com/php/...f13c8df8d15bec

and direct quotes:

""The key is that the Merovincian bloodline may be one of the oldest in all humanity (The New Testament takes the time to trace Jesus' ancestry all the way back to King David, Isaac, Abraham, Noah, Adam etc.) There are scholors who beleive that the Merovincian dynasty can be traced back to the dawn of time, and is somehow related to all the major develpements of civilization (agriculture, astronomy, mathematics, metallurgy, navigation, architecture, language, writing, and religion). Some believe the Merovincian family line started with Gods who ruled the world. These Gods created humans as their slaves. This tradition is common among all the major ancient civilizations (Simetic, Babylonian, Sumerian, Egytpian, Mesopotamian, Etc.) This theme of enslavement runs deep in The Matrix."

It occured to me that the scene before we are introduced to the Merovinagian has the Oracle explaining to Neo how various programs are created to watch over the Matrix. These programs can then be deleted becuase they break, become obsolete, etc. She goes on to tell Neo that the Merovingian is one of the oldest and post powerful of these programs. As I have stated before, I do not beleive there is sufficient evidence to support the Merovingian being a former One. It could be that the Merovingian was sort of a system application which oversaw the entire Matrix. I saw a posting somewhere else, where this was speculated. Let us not forget that there have been earleir versions of the Matrix. Persephone makes a reference to silver bullets which kind of fits neatly with when the Oracle mentioned that stories of vampires and werewolves are system problems. It could be that the Merovingian was the sort of like an operating system for the original Matrix, which is now obsolete. Though the Merovingian is an old program he could obvioulsy be very powerful. In my mind I imigine something similar to how DOS is imbedded in Widows. Everything uses the Windows code, and the Windows code has all the bells and whistles, the functionality of managing all the applications running on the operating system. However, DOS is still an effective way of managing the programs, though the object oriented elements of Windows are far more sophisticated. This fits thematicly into the concept of the Merovingian (The French Bloodline) being from the antiquities and an originator of the elements of civilization. Possibly, the Merovingian used to oversee all the componants of human culture and language in the First Matrix (The Neural Network), then another program came along that did a better job, or possibly the Merovingian became obsolete because of the introduction of "choice" into the coding of the Matrix. The Merovingian would no longer have to oversee the elements of human culture as choice could define culture and langauge. This also works with the Merovingian/Satan parallel, i.e. the fallen angel.

I have more thoughts on this but I have to stop now, but more to follow, I need to organize my thoughts.

E "

[PHILBERT]

Reloaded takes place 6 months after the Matrix, not 2 years.

[Judge Pen]

Wow. That's a lot of information.

[Starchaser107]

some of it is even interesting, provided you have the time.

[Kristoffer]

I saw it again today and I have to say I love it even more now. It has been through my mind all day and I couldn't come up with a better way of how the story continued and tied up the strings and ending it like this. It does make sense. The humans were the ones that treated the machines like the blacks were treated in America back in the days (as seen in Animatrix), as slaves. Then when the machines WANTED peace, we nuked them and payed the price. So that they accepted a peace in the end is just 'realistic'.

And, while I liked the ending, I felt it was too fast. "Oh, look, Neo dies, the machines give up and humanity still is tied into the Matrix, but we will free those who want to be freed. The end."

Nor the humans or the machines GAVE UP, they just accepted a peace offer. If they wouldn't have accepted it both the humans and machines would have bited the dust.

Oh and about the neo vs 1000 smith:
they do hit him, what are u blind? Neo CAN'T kill them that's the point, when he realizes this he flees when he gets an opening.

It just really bugs me that people just watch the surface of these movies. There's millions of other movies that doesn't have a thrid of depth as these. Most people I know base their judgement on 'how cool the fight scenes are'. Or as a friend of mine stated today after seeing Revolutions:
"it sucked!
(me) Why do u think that?
-well, coz the fights looked stoopid, he just flew around all the time.
-ookay, what about the ending?
-that was cool
-but I thought didn't like the movie?
-naa it sucked, Reloaded was way better.
-*siiiigh*




But what bothers me most are the ppl who says they don't like it ''bacause of the THIN and FLAWED story! (wtf?) Or like, ''it's too much 3d it looks artificial''. Yeah, sure. Like they gonna build up a WHOLE CITY of iron and tech just so some nobody movie critique can say it doesn't look artificial. Hey why not build some 500 000 metal squids that FLYS too? And the Neo fight scenes, let's throw him out the window! SO IT LOOKS AUTHENTIC!

[Kristoffer]

About Sati, the little girl program..

This site is pretty good. You could read for a whole day if you have the streanght 2

[SevenStar]

I haven't read all of these posts yet, but:

smith is not satan. he's pilate. pilate believed that jesus' death would bring order to rome.

the trinity does not war with eachother. they are multiple aspects of the same God. the architect and the oracle aren't part of the trinity.

[SevenStar]

I also found it rather ironic that smith, who refers to humans as a virus, ends up himself becoming a worm (not a virus, as was mentioned by someone earlier)