The (Serious) What's Your Favorite Throw Thread

[Water Dragon]

puter kapela = mopping

[Chang Style Novice]

Oso -

I don't think slanting fly and parting the horse's mane are the same. In slanting fly you move in from the front, step behind opponent and kick back to get the guy's leg in the air while you push forward on his chest (so he falls backward), right? With "parting..." you'd approach from the side, come under his arm so you're pulling to both your and his rear (you're facing more or less the same direction now) and bring him down to your left if you've got his right arm. If you kick his leg out, you'll be kicking forward. Wish I had a photo of an application so I could be more clear about this.

With slanting, you end up with his feet toward you, with parting, the feet are away. At least the way I'm defining the throws.

[Oso]

CSN, I looked around for some picks but didn't find too many application pics for tai chi either.

the form I do is a modified version of short yang (to the best of my knowledge, anyway) I don't have a move called 'parting..' by name so I'll have to play through it later and see if I have an analog to what you are describing.

{gets up and dances around office}

and what you are describing as 'parting...' sounds like what I'm calling slant flying.

my usual app for slant flying is to flank and enter with the shoulder strike to the ribs while warding with the same arm across the chest. In doing this I have moved the same side foot/leg behind their near leg and am hoping to uproot w/ my base as I extend through their centerline with my posture.
I may have the near side wrist in my off hand but not always.

If that fails then I might grab and twist through them.


your description of your slant flying sounds like 'diagonal cut' or 'osotogari'.

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/anima.../osotogari.htm

[Water Dragon]

Quick point on the whole O Soto Gari/Diagonal Cut thing. IMO, O Soto Gari is a 'variation' of Diagonal Cut, but not necesarily the same.

The idea in O Soto Gari s to reap out the leg to throw the guy (Correct me if I'm wrong here ST00, 7*, MP)

The idea of Diagonal Cut is to create a line of force and then cut it at an angle, usually 45 degrees. So Diagonal Cut can be performed with the reap, by just standing there, by walking through the guy, by kicking out the leg instead of reaping, using the shoulder, etc. It's all Diagonal Cut because it all cuts the line in one way or another.

OK, that's enough theory for today.

[Merryprankster]

You don't have to use the reap for O Soto Gari.

In fact, a few Judoka that I know will tell you that you should really throw them with your coming in. The leg reap's help.

[ShaolinTiger00]

lmao ! I was spending the last 5 minutes trying to write what MP said in 2 sentences..

the "reap" is just the easiest way to remove the leg. it aids the throw. (competition osoto is different - hooking and pulling it in while driving to the corner)

It's the kuzushi to the back corner that makes it work..

A guy at our club can do it and literally just rip you backwards without even reapinging the leg.. his kuzushi, chect to chest contact and speed make it very dynamic.

[Merryprankster]

Right. The real trick is that chest to chest contact while:

1. Freezing the leg you're going to dump them over to the mat
2. Leaning FORWARD as you drive.

[Merryprankster]

ON an unrelated note, I just ipponed the **** out of some Vindaloo. I make a MEAN curry.

[SevenStar]

I'm not so sure that mopping = puter kepala... puter doesn't involve that head jerk that mopping does. It's more of a neck twisting.

[Black Jack]

puter kapela and its head/neck turning variants.

Head lock throw-cross buttock

Backwards and forward leg sweeps and sapu ankle sweeps

I always thought the flying mare looked interesting as a throw

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
It's the kuzushi to the back corner that makes it work..

[ShaolinTiger00]

More than a year ago, I was competing in one my first judo tournaments and an opponent Ripped into me with o soto kuzushi that would make a freight train jealous. I was completely at his will. and I was ipponed so hard that I heard the entire crowd go "OOOOOOHHHHHHh"

I just rrememberred looking at the gymnasium lights and then laughing. we came to the line and I couldn't do anything but smile.

It was beautiful. judo -mutual benefit and welfare...

Sunday it was a little different shameful bragging.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by SevenStar
I'm not so sure that mopping = puter kepala... puter doesn't involve that head jerk that mopping does. It's more of a neck twisting.

Hmm, I don't do mopping with a jerk. You may be right though. Myoung used to use both terms for the same throw, so maybe I'm just assuming.

[Chang Style Novice]

Well, that O-soto-gari looks like exactly what I THOUGHT was meant by slanting fly. So chalk that one up to bothersome vocabulary. And you're diagonal cut does sound suspiciously like parting the horse's mane the way you describe it. So I guess chalk that one up to bothersome vocabulary, too.

I just hope we mean the same thing by "pat the high horse", which is another good'un.

1 - Step forward between the opponent's feet.

2 - Wrap the opposite leg around the outside of your opponent's calf to stop backward movement on that side

2 - use the hand opposite the forward foot to control the opponent at the small of the back to prevent backward movement on the other side.

3 - Use the free hand to push forward on the center of his chest.

4 - Faw down go boom.

[Oso]

thanks all for correction and education on osotogari and diaganol cut.

I've only been shown osotogari w/ the reap.

I understand the kazushi manipulation as key and have done other stuff in kung fu that was just that w/o the reaping.

CSN, nope...again.

I've been meaning to get my ******* tai chi form on tape.

RD and I were going to have a contest to see who did it better and Rub was going to judge

for me, Pat the High Horse does several things, 1 is an arm drag from inside, the other a head cranking throw from outside, the third is just a strike.

not a lot of time now to try and write it out. maybe a project to try and get on the website.