REAL LIFE FIGHTING

[broken]

I am not making any negative references to any specific style - that isn't my concern, however I want to share from my experiences, what I think contributes to real life fighting or to help give a better idea. A few little things now, to get your mind in the way of my thinking. Who do you think will win in a fight? Someone that goes to a martial art class/whatever a few times a week as a hobby or someone who survives from killing and stealing and living in slums. Think about who would have more heart. Also in real fights, you have to understand how fast things happen, it happens in a blink of a eye, BAM! you blink there it is. Depending on the person even more things weigh in, stress, anxiety, fears, whatever. Now you are faced against someone who doesn't even care if their own children live, who will win? How many of you have been in fights and have pulled your punches? I have. Even worse then that. How many of you have been in a fight, and then shook for days after that? People say it's about mindset, but you can say and then it can happen, it's like talking about sex and then doing it, which is more real? Masturbation is the prelimanary rounds for sex, just like training for a real fight, but as we all know things don't always go as planned. We can't control everything, sometimes you just have to let go. I'm very eager to hear what you think, please respond, and If I offended anyone(I don't see how) well then you know that wasn't my intentions.

[Leon]

Think about it, who has the biggest chance on the street, the one who have for the past four years trained MA several times a week, training to deal with people on the street, and at least have emulated it to a point. Or the one who has never trained MA, who has even less idea of how a fight is. I prefer training, so that I MAYBE will deal with violent situation better than if I hadn't trained. Or I could just buy a shotgun and stay at home, or become a murderer/thief whatever [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

If you get my point

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Peace

Leon
eleon@online.no
Leonhardsen.net
Thái_Cùc_Hiêp_Võ_Môn_KungFu

[MoQ]

Since we're talking about MA, there's no need to apologize and/or tiptoe around thinskinned egos...

You were attacked by some thugs recently and are apparently feeling the emotional repercussions.
As before, I appreciate your experience and willingness to share your feelings.

I think that there's an answer in the way you phrased the question "Who has more HEART". Violent, beligerent people may have nothing to live for and therefore possess no value in life itself and this makes them very dangerous but their willingness to cause hurt is really more of a sign of weakness, not strength. They are expecting nonaggressive people to be weak. You proved that this was not the case. It is the practice of gung fu that give one the "heart" necessary to stand for what is righteous in the moment.

You know firsthand, the value of the first strike. I believe that your righteous bravery saved the day for you and your friends. It IS disturbing that people act as animals in this way, but one need not internalize any guilt or suffer over the situation. You did what was right. If you would've had to kill one of them, you would've been in the right then also.

Martial artists train and practice and live their lives. If a situation emerges, one hopes they will be able to confront the aggression with the bravery which you have demonstrated. You and the righteous in MA practice for your own sense of self and this is it's own justification.

If you have been upset by altercations, if you have been surprised by pulling punches, you have learned and survived. You have also proven to be an asset in a true life threatening situation.

Just relax and know... you're going to get over this trauma and I wish you a speedy release.

[Rising Dragon]

Good point Leon and MoQ,
Martial Artists are trained to deal with these sort of lunatics, maybe they're more vulnerable to your attacks than regular people. usually people like that don't understand the mechanisms of a true fight. I mean they have absolutely no concept. they are just out to draw blood. You should be able to catch them in their own mistakes, when they mistake you for a weakling, and capitalize on them, especially when you have trained for 4 years or more. The outcome may differ if they have a projectile weapon(Gun). [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] My comments are opinionated with my experience in the martial arts. Continue training...


[This message has been edited by Rising Dragon (edited 07-30-2000).]

[jojitsu27]

Fighting in the street is a very serious thing. Often as martial artists the very opposite of how we should be viewing street fights is the very view we take. We often assume, since we fight and spar in the Dojo/Kwoon that fighting on the street is just as easy and something not as serious.
You can get hurt permanently or killed in a street encounter so you should train very seriously for such encounters.
There is alot of truth to the saying, "the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war". Take your training seriously! Don't just go to kung fu class, work some forms, work some techniques, discuss history or where that or this technique evolved and why. That stuff has its place in Kung Fu, but be sure that the class you choose has realistic street training and scenarios. Also, no matter what style you study be it Tai Chi or Tae Kwon Do, if you do not do any full contact sparring/fighting in class then you are not going to be ready for a real life encounter. I'm sorry that is just the reality of it. Lots of sifu's will lie and say that just by learning techniques and forms you can defend yourself on the streets, and mostly they just do that out of plain ignorance becuase they themselves have never had to defend themselves in a realistic situation.
Just train hard, I guess that is the point to my post.
-jojitsu27

[benny]

i think the person who has nothing to lose will win. most of us have,ie families and friends so we have to train to even be equal to those phyicos.
i hate to say it but the other day i was in town,drunk, and tlaking to one of my friends that is the bouncer on the door and the bouncers took out this bloke atleast 40-50 yrs old. i was standing there and being alot smaller then the bouncers(im 5 foot nothing and60kilos dripping wet) he tryed to fight me instead. being really drunk i took offence and told him so(not that nicely but).
well as he went to hit me i just stepped forward(in ving tsun we take a 45 degree angle) grabbed him by the throat(bad move) and smashed his head at the ground. i was standing with him on the ground pleeding me to not hit him and i thought about it, especialy dropping the knee but i just couldnt bring myself to do it. well needless to say i let him go walked away and as i was walking away he grabbed my ponytail dragged me onto the ground and proceded to beat me liberaly around the ears. i finally got up and smashed him but i was left with a split ear and feeling very embarassed.
my instructor was very ****ed withme as he said" would you let me get up." isaid no way and he replyed" im the same age why go easy on him" i was even more anoyed at my self when i thought about that but you get that. now i dont even let them move before i go for the kill. but thats just me a good belting teaches you alot.
see ya
THE MORE YOU SWEAT IN PEACE
THE LESS YOU BLEED IN WAR

[bean curd]

benny,

you acted the way you did, because that is the way you are, and there is nothing wrong with that, you followed one of the tenant of life, live and let live.

the only thing to be said, is the old saying, "never let your gaurd down, and don't turn your back on your opponent"

we all have things to live for, and if pushed i have never seen a pacifist in a fox hole or shell scrape, not take up a weapon and return fire.

like i said, just don't forget that not everyone thinks like you, so watch your personal space when letting them go

all the best

[bean curd]

broken,

your honesty in the situation that you found yourself in is to be admired.

shaking after a stressful situation, is a natural body reaction, and anyone that says there not scared, when confronted with a problem, that could be detremental to their health, would be hidding the truth.

each person reacts differently to the same situation, what is different is if they know how they react and how to control it.

this comes with experiance and the hard knocks of life, as long as you bounce back up, learn, understand, correct then go on, you have learnt one of lifes leasons.

not to lecture, theres is an old saying,

"if someone does something to you the first time, shame on them, if they do the same thing to you a second time, shame on you"

take care and all the best

[LEGEND]

Most likely a guy who has nothing to lose is suicidal and so forth...but a guy who has something to lose will fight for survival...it can go both ways! I use to be kinda like the LETHAL WEAPON mentality...not any more soooooooooo I think I might have lost and edge aggressiveness wise...but I think that EXPERIENCE using basic techniques over and over again will come to play! Also a psychological approach to self defense training like TONY BLAUER tapes will help!

[SHAOLINWOODENMAN]

I like this subject. For i feel that i can offer some wisdom here about it. Those who havw seen my earlier posts will know this about me. i am in my 50's. i am also a vietnam veteran with a background in shotokan and okinawan karate, i now train in shaolin kung fu in the park with a bright young man named steven. that is all i will divulge of me right now. REality fighting,,,,,,hmmmm,,,let me think,,,,okay,,
i have known ALOt of guys who were black belts in systems and got thier butts kicked on the street. Reason? they were too over confident about thier belt. The fighter on the street fights for survival,whether or not he cares about his kids or his crack or whatever makes no difference. he is n the street struggling in his own mental state and will fight to preserve himself,regardless. Now i fought in vietnam,
i killed people, i dont say that with any form of pride. killing is not as easy as it sounds, especailly with your hands. i was involved in an incident over there that changed the way i look at life. i am a patriot of my country, i went there with the knowledge that i was protecting my fellow americans from the bad commies. the platoon i was in was ordered to raid a villiage believed to be a storage depot for the nva.
How right we were. we were met with resistance and got into a fire fight with them. we prevailed but in order to succed we had to literally shoot and kill every person in that villa. to make a long story short i got disarmed by a young NV soldier hiding out in one of the huts, he suprised me. we fought i was cut pretty bad, but i was the stronger one and i choked him to death. the fiercness at which he fought to preserve his life changed the way i saw the enemy for then on. he was young like i was at the time.
i know that i am rambling on about this but i hope that the martial artists on this forum will understand where i am coming from.
" no amount of training will ever prepare you for that confrontation either on the street or in war" i agree with the comment that says "train seriously". you can talk all you want about what you would do to somebody if they attackd you. everyone has a plan until they get hit. train hard and train with the mentality that any fight you get into is a life threatening situation. learn to distinguish the peacock fighters with the survival fighters. that is all,,,PEACE!

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NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE BELT!

[benny]

i didnt think wooden dummies fought back,lol. but seriously that story was full on. im not sure if i could kill anyone with my bare hands honestly.
the point about not turning your back is a good one i was thinking it as he was hitting me and i was more anoyed with myself them him. my teacher also told me this. ive never done it again and even got in a fight with two guys over a taxi and won, i dont know who was more supprissed them or me.
see ya
THE MORE YOU SWEAT IN PEACE
THE LESS YOU BLEED IN WAR

[jojitsu27]

"he grabbed my ponytail dragged me onto the ground and proceded to beat me liberaly around the ears"
LOL!!!Don't you love the British....that sounds like something you would hear directly from Monty Python.....and then the guy proceeded to beat me liberaly around the ears!LMAO.....don't take offense benny, but that is just too funny!
-jojitsu27