Evolving past bashing styles, systems and schools.

[TAO YIN]

christopher, don't get me wrong, i totally know what you are going on about,,,,but.

contextually,,,,,everything (is) or could be, relative.

look at this situation. murder one points a gun at my eye and says, "is 2+ 2, 5?" I say, "no". murder x points the gun a way and fires off a shot. he points the gun back at me and says "say 2 + 2 =5 and believe it, or ill blow the back of your brain out of your skull."

At this point I would have the ability to change my perception of 2 and make it 3 or whatever, and believe it to be so, well, that is unless I didn't value my life whatsoever.

everything is relative because everything is a symbol that you learned so you could and can express your ability to reason to others, and at the very least, for your own well being. 2 is a symbol. that sentence i just wrote is a symbol. our communication here is based upons symbols. me waving my hand is a symbol. im hungry, better eat with my hand, symbol, function, life as a human, and da.

if i had learned that 2 + 2 =5 all along, that would make it more legitimate for me no matter how many times someone tried to tell, teach, or show me that 2 +2 =4. mainly because of repetition and reinforcement.

your idea of legitimate is not always right, and mine isn't either. im not talking right as in broad truth known by all or most. im talking right as in my own mind knowing whatever we are talking about to be right.

if i can't see the world move, and no one had ever told me that it did and does, and i had never been taught in some way or read a book to tell me that a was a and b was b and 2 was 2 and 3 was 3, then how would i know any of this? does a blind mute from birth know the world moves?

but still that same blind mute has reasoning and realitve understanding of the world around him all his own.

you can only infer because you lerned that or had that ability imbeded into you at one time. if i put my hand on a hot stove. **** that is hot. but if i walk, i don't usually think, the world is moving and im not.

everything is relative, and like i said all along

DEDUCTIVE REASONING DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK!

[cerebus]

Heh, heh. Hey Tao Yin. You really shouldn't waste any time trying to reason with CM. He just likes playing "Cat's cradle" with words. He'll talk forever without ever really saying anything and sidestep any straighforward questions you ask him (then claim that you never answered HIS questions, LOL ). I mean, if you're bored & killin' time, sure, it can keep you occupied but don't make the mistake of thinking that you can ever get through to him once he's made his mind up. Peace. T.

[KC Elbows]

Tao Yin probably thinks he lives in a tough neighborhood. Where I live, muggers will make you do trig at gunpoint. It's that bad.

And they know when you're answer is wrong, buddy. These are some real math savvy criminals we have here. They have to be.

Tell a mugger out here it's all relative, and you might have to EXPLAIN what you mean in mathematical terms.

That's why most math is weak. No live testing. When you can apply functions while sidestepping a muay thai kick, then maybe you can come to my neighborhood, boyo.

[Merryprankster]

Tao Yin,

At this point I would have the ability to change my perception of 2 and make it 3 or whatever, and believe it to be so, well, that is unless I didn't value my life whatsoever.

But your belief doesn't make it so. It doesn't even make it true FOR YOU. It just means you believe it to be true and you are mistaken. So, the meaning of 2+2 isn't relative. It's quite absolute.

Point being that your perceptions don't have any impact on what is real or true IN FACT, and what is not. They are simply your perceptions of reality. If your perception of reality is/was that all chairs had teeth and wanted to eat you when you sat down that doesn't change the fact that chairs do not have teeth and do not desire to eat you. If you perceive that you can fly, it does not necessarily follow that you can.

This is why Cognitive Relativism is bunk. It grants validity to bull****.

[scotty1]

That's what I thought but didn't quite know how to say.

[The Willow Sword]

constant need for monkey slap too to tell me , rather overbearingly i might add, that i am way off on my intepretation of this parable of the Ronin and the Team master. i decided to run a search engine on the story. What i had written down in the thread was what i took from a book on japanese martial arts that i receieved when i was 13 years old. it was one of the things that insipred me to get in to the martial arts to begin with.

http://www.storytellingcenter.com/re...les/neile3.htm

if you scroll down you will find the story, basically it is the same story but with a bit more detail. after reading the comjplete story and thinking hard on my interpetation of it and how i relate it to how people deal with each other here on the forums i have come to the sound conclusion that my intepretation is in fact one of a few CORRECT interpretations that can be given on this story.


MST ,,your intellect is staggering,,and you had me going there for a mintue that i really might be way off base,,but as i read the complete story and thought again on my views on it. a serene cool wind of confidence swept over me and i knew. i just knew.

so i want to thank you MST for the lesson that you may or may not have been conciously aware teaching me, and that is to have confidence in myself and abilities and it does not really matter what another will think if it be an insult passive aggressively or direct.

Peace and many respects,,,TWS

[Merryprankster]

CORRECT interpretations that can be given on this story.

If this is anything like your "CORRECT" interpretations about why people compete, I'll take MST's version.

[BentMonk]

After reading the posts on this thread I have come to one conclusion. There are very few individuals here who are truly concerned with sharing training techniques, or having respectful exchanges of any kind. MST will flame this post by saying that he was respectfully pointing out the fact that TWS was incorrect concerning the parable. MST is a classic example of an expression an uncle of mine used to say. "If you can't dazzle them with brillance, baffle them with BS." He takes up huge amounts of space talking in circles, and tossing around philosophical terminology. All in an effort to show us all how smart he is. Well color me unimpressed. For all I know, MST may have degrees in philosophy running out his azz. I could care less. I find his attitude condecending, arrogant, and rude. TWS simply tried to point out that we could all benifit from each others experiences if we could get off the "your style sucks and mine doesn't" kick. You guys flamed him for his efforts. Yeah, Yeah, I hear you guys typing. "The only reason he agrees with TWS is because he's one of those SDers." I agree with TWS because I see someone trying to move beyond pettiness, and into informational discussion. I firmly believe that we should exercise our own judgement. I do not agree that everyone's oppinion should be taken as fact. However, I do not see myself as an obligated educator of the masses, as MANY on this board obviously view themselves. As to the correct or incorrect interpretation of ANY parable, there is no right or wrong answer. Those of you who staunchly insist to the contrary need to go back and reread your stuff. Well, I've got other stuff to do. I just felt like throwing two more of my cents into this "discussion". Ignore it, flame it, agree with it. It's all still just another oppinion. They're like azzholes, we've all got one. Peace.

[Salacious Crumb]

BentMonk smoked the "Chi pipe" too long this morning. Perhaps he feels holding hands and singing kumbaya is the best way to learn how to fight?

[BentMonk]

Originally posted by Salacious Crumb
BentMonk smoked the "Chi pipe" too long this morning. Perhaps he feels holding hands and singing kumbaya is the best way to learn how to fight?

Nope I don't feel that way at all. This is the only board out of those I post on where style bashing takes up most of the band width. I've always been impressed with TWS's attitude on this board, so it bothered me to see a well meaning post get so unabashedly ridiculed. Once again, JMO. Peace.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by BentMonk
, MST may have degrees in philosophy running out his azz. I could care less. I find his attitude condecending, arrogant, and rude.

Yeah, but this is supposed to be a martial arts discussion board. Generally, when you come across an expert in a discussion board, you listen to them. However, here on KFO we have 1 individual who is a 5th degree Shuai Chiao black belt, a senior student of Dr. Brian Wu, teacher od Southern Praying Mantis system, friend of Mike Sigman, friend of Victor DeThoeras, as well as someone who's been known to play with Wai Lun Chois students and Dr. Weh Chin Ni's students vs a guy who did Shaolin Do for a while and then got beat up by a tiger guy.

And here on KFO, everyone thinks the Shaolin Do guy is more legit.

[Salacious Crumb]

I've always been impressed with TWS's attitude on this board, so it bothered me to see a well meaning post get so unabashedly ridiculed.

Read some of his posts from a couple of years ago. You'll see paler shades of YinYangDagger/ CrazyMadDrunk/ Golden Snake.

And here on KFO, everyone thinks the Shaolin Do guy is more legit.

[BentMonk]

Originally posted by Water Dragon


Yeah, but this is supposed to be a martial arts discussion board. Generally, when you come across an expert in a discussion board, you listen to them. However, here on KFO we have 1 individual who is a 5th degree Shuai Chiao black belt, a senior student of Dr. Brian Wu, teacher od Southern Praying Mantis system, friend of Mike Sigman, friend of Victor DeThoeras, as well as someone who's been known to play with Wai Lun Chois students and Dr. Weh Chin Ni's students vs a guy who did Shaolin Do for a while and then got beat up by a tiger guy.

And here on KFO, everyone thinks the Shaolin Do guy is more legit.

Legitimacy does not justify rudeness. If anything someone with those type of credentials should have more reason not to lower themselves by ridiculing another's point of view when expressing their own.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Lowlynobody
2+2 = 5 is legitimate as long as they are symbles or objects on a monitor. Once you apply it to reality and see that when you get 2 of one thing and add 2 more and you realise you have 4 you see what is in reality legitimate.

And any style and training methodology is legitimate as long as they are just airy speculation on a message board. Once you apply it to reality, you see what is in reality legitimate.

And those of us who've taken two of one thing and added two more in reality tend to get a little short with the folks online telling us that we really had five, but lacked the perception to realize it.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by BentMonk


Legitimacy does not justify rudeness. If anything someone with those type of credentials should have more reason not to lower themselves by ridiculing another's point of view when expressing their own.

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
TWS - I have no problem with you. I just think you are wrong in your interpretation of this parable. So wrong, it is staggering. This is not a judgement of you as a person, but a debate about an intellectual position you have taken.

I know my 'style' is assertive, and can be interpreted by some as abrasive. Please understand it is not my intention to hurt your feelings, simply to state the situation.

If I could be so bold - I know your intentions are good. I've actually spoken to you. I beleive that. But IF you choose to position yourself as a teacher of wisdom as well as fighting - go seek out some wise teachers.

hmmm, sounds like a conscious effort NOT to be rude. What are you reading Bentmonk?