Single Leg--Head Inside or Outside ???

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Meatshake is training with one of the best Shuai Chiao guys in the country, hands down.

Has he ever entered any open grappling competitions?

[truewrestler]

Jowbacca,

Where are you in Maryland? I'm in Northern Virginia.

I'm just curious cuz it seems that head inside would mean supporting the weight more with one arm versus the other; and would also somewhat change the angle of your shoot.

Inside or Outside? Just wanted to make sure that wasn't a typo or understand the question better before giving some specific input.

I shoot a single (head inside) and high-crotch (head outside) very differently. The single and double generally use the basic shooting motion. For the high-crotch I use more of a swimming motion -- leading with my inside shoulder and knee, knee maybe tapping the ground while I reach with my inside arm under my opponent to the leg and then square up and circle or switch to the double. I generally find it much easier to shoot a high-crotch than a double leg in wrestling/grappling because it is one quick motion with your body instead of moving your entire body on the double.

There are few finishes to the single leg or high-crotch where you lift your opponent off the ground and slam... that is almost exclusive to the double leg.

Water Dragon,

I'll try to keep my mouth clean

[Jowbacca]

Well goin back to some of what WaterDragon said; havin this conversation degrade into a style vs style; this or that won't work; name-callin fest would be a shame.

I think there was probably a bit of friction of what would and wouldn't work once BJJ people and wrestlers started exchanging.

Just asking that you guys let cooler heads prevail and keep this a friendly exchange.

Whether you do something different, or you have a counter to a particular move; I'd rather see sharing instead of "laying down the law" and implying that someone doesn't know what they're talking about.

Not tryin to be a tree hugger or your daddy, I just think these kind of discussions could be a real positive thing.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Has he ever entered any open grappling competitions?

Probably more of a San Shou type match. What I can tell you for sure is that Kirk just got 3rd black a couple weeks ago, and one of the requirements for black in our organization is, "A respectable tournament fighting record." There's a lot of leeway in that, but the tournament will have both striking and stand up wrestling in it.

So Open grappling with groundwork? Probably not
Striking and throws? Well yeah, like I said, it's a requirement.

[Jowbacca]

I live in Glen Burnie. I've gone down to work with Kru Miller & Jeff down there in Virginia a few times. Met ShaolinTiger00, Apoweyn, and MerryP last winter at 3rd Power for the big MD/VA/DC exchange. Way past due for another one by the way.

I think what I do is similar to a high crotch. Basically what happens is I'll lead with a kick and then go to hands once I closed distance. If the other guy's starting to light me up, I shoot in on his lead leg; head outside, shoulder squeezing in on the inside of the thigh as my (usually) left arm wraps around, bicep high up on the thigh, elbow down, fist up. From there I can usually hoist the guy up for a slam- lifting up directly under his center of gravity.

edit: it's practically a fireman's carry without securing his arm.

I figure if I shoot head inside the thigh, I've gotta lean in way to the left so that my rear (right arm) can grab his thigh- but won't be as close to his center of balance, so I could see it being harder to lift unless I went the extra step for the double leg. Plus coming down the center instead of kind of arcing down and to the right might put me in range for more of his tools.

I'm going to try to work on it, I'm just raising some issues that are popping into my head.

[truewrestler]

That's great that competition is a requirement

I think you guys just misunderstand. MerryPrankster wrestled in highschool and some in college. I would guess well over 100 wrestling matches and 4 or 5 years in BJJ with dozens of bjj/grappling matches. He is a purple belt in BJJ which is generally considered the black belt level of other martial arts.

If he makes a comment about submissions or wrestling takedowns (his specialties) I take that to heart.

I don't know Kirk but from what you say he is not big into submissions so I'll go with my experience and what MP says.

Really not a big deal and no disrespect intended with my previous posts.

[Merryprankster]

3.5 years of BJJ.

As far as my wrestling, let's not overstate the case. I was a talented HS wrestler who didn't work near **** hard enough to reach my potential. As far as college, I only wrestled a year and a half before I quit....being 17 and wrestling 23 year olds has a way of destroying your will to live--especially when you've got military requirements on top of academic ones, etc.

Although I have had probably hundreds of grappling matches--that I'll grant you.

[Jowbacca]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
....being 17 and wrestling 23 year olds has a way of destroying your will to live--especially when you've got military requirements on top of academic ones, etc.

Yah, I get the same feeling when I spar MusicalKataChamp.... or when I get KOed by a kick I shoulda seen 5 minutes before it landed...

[Oso]

Just asking that you guys let cooler heads prevail and keep this a friendly exchange.

Whether you do something different, or you have a counter to a particular move; I'd rather see sharing instead of "laying down the law" and implying that someone doesn't know what they're talking about.

Not tryin to be a tree hugger or your daddy, I just think these kind of discussions could be a real positive thing.

yes, please.

this is a good discussion.



I didn't shoot a single or double in HS. Never really worked for me for whatever reason, not fast enough maybe.

my senior year it was all firemans with the occasional 'barnyard' toss which I got when they read my firemans...as I remember they would back out of the firemans but be really bent over and I would grab the head, stand up and pop the hip into them.

but that doesn't really matter since there's 18 years of water under the bridge.

my question came up because I was shown a single with the head to the outside last night and we were working counters to that and it seemed contradictory to what I remembered. I've also seen what appears to be a lot of single legs in vid clips I've downloaded but now that 'high crotch' is thrown in that may be what I'm looking at.

so, in a high crotch, the head would be higher on the torso...closer to the ribs vs near the leg??? don't remember this from HS.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by truewrestler


I don't know Kirk but from what you say he is not big into submissions so I'll go with my experience and what MP says.

That's fine. We're not big into subs. My point is that you shouldn't take Meat Shakes inability to explain a concept as Kirk's inability to explain or perform it. It's not exactly a stupid man's commentary on a wise man's words, but it is a 3 month white belts commentary on a 20 year black belt's teachings. That's not a slam on MS, he's trying, and if he hasn't quit that class yet, he's a down mutha ****a. You'll get there Bro, just remember to tuck and not bang your ankles

[CrippledAvenger]

and watch out for the black hand groin rippers!

[Water Dragon]

Yeah? Keep talking $hit Crip. Wait until you see the black hand for Diagonal Cut this Saturday. Hope ya got a good neck.

[CrippledAvenger]

Sweet! If it don't kill me, it'll be fuuuuun. Man, this whole fight thing's going to be nothing after our classes.

edit: I hope I have a good neck too. I've been doing those neck excercizes from Miguel's class. They'd better be worth something, ******!

Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[Meat Shake]

lol...
Whatever... Im too blunted to argue right now, Will continue in the morning. I explained it how it works. I train it like that. I wrestle with a purple belt Im friends with here in town. Its not my business to name names. Irrelevant anyhoo.

[No_Know]

Criticism/Comment(s) on the videos' material.

01. a grab like that on your part, press the foot to your side. Turn to the other side and down (reverse direction and you can add a sweep to the lower leg). The purpose is to rotate the leg at the hip by turning it to the inside (small circle)
....The shifing from clockwise to counter-clockwise and back agian I think is a useful tactic coupled with intent and timing.
....Your distance and stancing before entering was good and smart. You allow them an opportunity for them to make exploitable mistakes. Good for you.
....You try for a specific technique. perhaps you would consider going with what is offered instead of always going for a pre-set hold.
....Your kneeling flexibility seemed good.
....Shifting weight with your bounce makes a window where you Can't move-ish if they catch the timg-ish.
....Mind your rushed breathing (try less hard)
....I liked your waiting and switching-up.
....That untelegraphed lowerbody hop/switch-up is Beautiful. (Keep-up the sensory deception)

02.

....The dip then strech your leg in works for you.
....Establish an understanding of stepping (mirror/opposite) learto lead your opponent's leg into optimum sweep Range and Know your range.
The lean-down with the dip at the end is good before you sweep but also an obvious move to say you are going to move.
....You or opponent might have been other than well versed.

03.

....Resting on your kneeshelps you be more moveable.
....Letting your body be dead weight might be of assistance in this situation.

04.

...You might consider a punching spinning kick.
....More extention before you land the kick or drop it into sometingels or you might get repelled because your support leg is too close~.
....Your steps seem heavy though your stance can float (good~).
....If you shift your weight, do other than pick(rock)-up your feet to do it.
....Spin kick with your lead elbow held lower
More...more...hungry to see...:-)
....I like that you invite them to attack and the verticle forarm block (and that you are intercept minded).