When Is PM not PM

[Life long Student]

At what point in a fight are you not being a mantis practitioner. Ever since I have studied PM I have been able to mimic almost any move especially hand moves, that have ever been taught me. Consequently In altercations that I have had, several moves have come out that I know aren't in PM. I Guess I could make a stretch with parts but they definitely aren't in there. My question is, is this in a sense the goal of all systems. To just be able to deal with the opponent and win? That to some extent, you body will come up with the answer to a problem without thought? Or to make our style specific moves work in an altercation. If I think about the moves that come out I can break them down to PM theory but other than that they are definitely hybrids, of many systems.

[mantis108]

Is there an example of a move that you find not in PM? Could you also clarify on move (ie combination of techniques, a single technique, etc...). Also if you would clarify on the defination of "altercation"? Is it sparring? If yes, what kind of rules?

Personally, I think there is always room for improvement. So...

Regards

Mantis108

[Life long Student]

For example: As a bouncer very often if I was to late to talk someone out of a going off, the person would proceed to throw a punch. One move that I would do automatically was what is commonly called a Russian arm drag, while doing sort of a 7 * stance then a horse, to gain distance, behind the person, then a choke. I was taught this was called a Copenhagen. Witch usual has the opponents arm in the air while I am behind/side while choking, cutting off the flow of blood to one side of the neck. (Darn this is hard to describe in writhing) The Russian I think is Like Go Lo Sty. The hand movement can open or close the opponent. I usually do it by lifting my left hand like I am about brush my hair then with my right grab the elbow (from the bottom) and pull it across my body this spins the person towards there left exposing there back. I can feed this arm drag from almost any single attack or double arm push. I can't tell you how many times I have used these moves. These seam to have pieces of PM but nothing any different from what I could find In many other arts.

I usually define an altercation very broadly, but in this case something that could work its way to something physical.

[mantisben]

Originally posted by Life long Student
...That to some extent, you body will come up with the answer to a problem without thought? ...

I don't know if it is the goal of all systems of combat or all Martial Artists, but I think it is a good goal for anyone who wants to be able to fight using Martial Arts (like me). To be able to move your body in a way that allows you to be successful in a fight. Either striking, evading, or deflecting.

Whether you take down an adversary using a tackle you learned in Football, landing a kick you learned in Soccer, or hitting someone with the arm movement you would use when you're throwing a Baseball from deep in Right-Field to Home-Plate. I think all of these movements (and others) can be used to strike an opponent and do damage in a fight.

[Life long Student]

So as much as we might have a certain look to our systems, Is mantis a form or theories?

[BaldMonk]

Lifelong,

The move you're describing is known to me as the shoulder pin. Fortunately it's a move I do and teach so I was able to figure it out from your description. It's not a move that I've seen in mantis but it's from another system that I practice and teach to the police and military. Because I'm a mantis/baji person. The way I move to put the shoulder pin on is different then say a person who has a background in Karate or BJJ. The actual application of the technique is a vascular restriction on the blood vessels on the sides of the neck prevents the flow of blood from the head to the body resulting in unconsciousness on the subject. The physiological effect is the same regardless the style or flavor used when applying the technique. I play/train with people from various backgrounds and we all get there differently. I get there like a mantis person. My footwork, angles, flavor, energy is mantis. I make what I'm doing mantis and I think you do as well. Because you can't find the movement in a form doesn't mean it is a non mantis movement IMHO.

My thoughts are: you're doing mantis.

As an aside, the shoulder pin (russian arm drag) is a great technique. I bounced for three years and wished I had it back then. We have a variation where we apply it from the side and drop to one knee. The knee closest to the oponent is up the one further away is down. You take the person down by flipping them over the raised knee. Hard to explain in writing.

Baldy

[Frogman]

Prior to my PM experience I trained in other styles of MA and in the beginning most of my moves resembled the Karate I took years before. As the KF started to take over, even moves that I learned in past styles have a more KF type flavor. Smoother, faster and more flowing. As for mantis, the grabs, redirect, and attacks all have some sort of footwork or body shift that is a direct reflection of what I’m learning in PM. I do not have job that requires me to manhandle customers (I’m green with this as I would love to manhandle my customer, sometimes…) but in general horse play the mantis will show. A good question on this topic would be: Is the technique a product of the style or the stylist? Two people can learn the same move from the same teacher and both do it differently. I believe it is the individual whose state of mind that draws the line between PM or not PM. If you are a praying mantis you will fight like one, if you are a tiger, a dragon, or crane the same can be said.
The movement is a product of the stylist, the stylist is a product of the style, the style is a product of the technique, which should be reflected in the movement. It should be a cycle, no beginning no end.

RibHit
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