Aikido?

[red5angel]

is it a viable self defense art?

[Mr Punch]

yes

[Ford Prefect]

Define viable..

[red5angel]

can it be used and can it be considered a good source for self defense? I don't know a whole lot about it and would like to hear what anyone has to say about it.

[Mr Punch]

But perhaps the questions should be:

What is a viable self-defence art?

What do you want from a self-defence art?

Do you even believe in a self-defence art?

Why are you asking?

Will you believe a random internet nonentity who says he has effectively used it on the door, in the street, in sparring, falling out of a tree and in a major civil disturbance?

Is it not true that you already have preconceptions that will not be altered one way or the other by anyone else's answer?

If you want a serious discussion on this, please search the forum first (it has been discussed at length, especially by people who had preconceptions, or conceptions based like those of so many martial arts, on just witnessing the shoddy and badly taught), go to some self-defence, aikido and/or police unarmed classes, or find somebody you could trust from aiki to go over the basic concepts or to spar with you...

Cheers.

[Judge Pen]

I studied it for a while. My observations in class were that EVERY student (about 10) had previous experience in another martial art. At least half had extensive (at least black or its equivilant) experience. I found the moves and techniques to be an excellent supplement to my training and I beggan to see different applciations in my forms.

I think it can be a viable art, but if that was all you ever trained in, then I think it would take you 5 years or more of extensive training before you could apply its principles effectively against a resisting opponent.

[red5angel]

Mat, I'm not a newbie, and don't need to be lectured by you. If you have thoughts about Aikido then say so, if you don't then best not to say anything at all. I certainly know where I am, have no pre-conceptions of what I am looking for, as I stated I have no reference for aikido, thought I would ask here.

JP - why would you say it takes 5 years? Just that long to get the basics down on solid footing or is it that complcated? not a judgement, just a question. how did it help you as a supplement to your training?

[Mr Punch]

lol

I wasn't lecturing you, I was asking questions. I know you're not a newbie Red but I also know that that doesn't necessarily stop people asking pretty stupid questions (and no, I'm not necessarily talking about you!), and I also know how sensitive you can be dear, so maybe I should have asked the questions in pink.

I have a lot to say about aiki; practiced tried and tested, strengths and weaknesses: most of it I have put in posts on this board numerous times, but no ****er bothers reading, or half the time even responding, especially not when they can be going off with their fascinating crusades about what is right and wrong in x martial art. And as you're not a newbie, perhaps you would remember some of these many threads...?

Also, if you wanna check posting times before starting a pointless internet slanging match, maybe it's not beyond you to see that I was typing while you were writing your disclaimer.

Thank you for answering one of my questions, by saying you don't know a whole lot about it. But unless you get that bunch out of your panties, the rest of this thread is I guess, doomed to be old ground, but this is KFM...

And I still want to know what the point of your question is.

And no, that's not an attack on you either, I'm just wondering if you think this thread will generate any martial value, good training tips, relevance to kungfu, discussions on energy generation or power transfer, or what...

[red5angel]

Sorry Mat, the reason I have not been on the forum for a while for the most part is because of some of the crap on here. My apologies to you. I honestly don't remember many threads on aikido in the past but that could be because my interest was not there at the time.

As for why I am asking? For whatever reason, the Japanese arts have started to come of interest for me. There is supposed to be a pretty good Aikido Dojo around here that I am going ot be checking out soon, mostly out of curiosity. I figured I would ask here to see if anyone has any experience with it and see what they thought about it. It' s not ultimately going to make me see it as any more or less, just part of what I do when I am looking into something I am interested in.
You'll just have to trust that I am not out to "prove" aikido is useless or that it is the best as sometimes happens on these forums. Just honestly and earnestly asking about the art.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
I studied it for a while. My observations in class were that EVERY student (about 10) had previous experience in another martial art. At least half had extensive (at least black or its equivilant) experience. I found the moves and techniques to be an excellent supplement to my training and I beggan to see different applciations in my forms.

I think it can be a viable art, but if that was all you ever trained in, then I think it would take you 5 years or more of extensive training before you could apply its principles effectively against a resisting opponent.

What do you call extensive training? Training a lot of different techniques? Trainign a lot of one step drills? Training a lot of "ki exercises"?

This is one of the main problems with aiki. People train techniques, not principles. You can use the principles of aiki from a couple of weeks into training, against an unwilling opponent, if you are taught in a principle framework. If you are taught techniques as most people are, it may take you five years (the time I took to get my shodan), and you still will not be able to use much.

So basically I agree, but I think it is a problem with the training ethic rather than the principles of the art. It is trained as a spiritual discipline, not an MA, or as in Yoshinkan, it is trained against non-resisting opponents in basically cooperative drills in a broken down sequence of movements... It's only when you train against resisting opponents that it becomes effective.

Love to continue, but it's way past my bedtime!

[Golden Arms]

It works just fine, especially well against a person trying to shoot/grab/really slug you, but it works fine against pretty much any attack. Like was said already..its the principals you must learn, and much like tai chi, most people that practice it NEVER really get it to a large extent. Much of that is because it takes complete faith in your technique to remain relaxed as you use it in a harsh situation, and aikido doesnt work very well if you dont relax..so there is a sharp learning curve. No real defined stance, but you often can start out from sort of sword stance, with hands on the centerline and back foot pointed more to the side, not very wide either.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Aikido is an alright art against the Average Joe. But, I find when pitted against another throwing art it lacks something. I don't have much experience with it, but there is a black belt in my class. All the turns seem unnessesary when fighting a more direct art like SC or Judo.

[ShaolinTiger00]

is it a viable self defense art?

In my opinion- Absolutely not.

Pre 9-11, there was an aikido club sharing the dojo with my judo club. Once a month we would have a shiai tournament (we were on very freindly terms)

We thrashed them soundly every single time. In fact I don't ever recall a judoka above yonkyu ever being thrown let alone losing.. in fact being a bjj practicioner myself, I delighted in the competitions because I would immediatey shoot in on uke and get them to the ground, where they knew even less than the beginning judoka about newaza and were quickly submitted with basic techniques..

I think aikido is wonderful. The men and women who came to our club had excellent character, humility, grace and poise. but in my opinion to capable of performing the art successfully vs another grappler, you would first have to have a foundation built upon judo, and then seek the more sophisticated, refined skills of aikido.

p.s. - the aikido club loved the competitons because they were always interested in realistic application and evidence that their techniques were sound. kudos for them for seeking application based in reality!


I do not mean this post to become a brag or a boast about "Yeah, we're better than them!" because I do not feel that way. I do not mean to offend you all. But I'm sure some (at least one..) may find it indignant.

to them -My apologies.

[PHILBERT]

Just go over to http://www.e-budo.com/ and ask them on the Aikido forums what they feel about the art.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Philbert, How would that get you any closer to the truth? ( I am a poster on e-budo)

go to a Shotokan karate forum and ske them if they think they are good.

go to a Hung Gar forum and ask them if they are good.

Go to a kempo forum and ask them if they are good.

in fact I'd like to you to find a forum that says "no. we suck!"