Aikido?

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by Mat
Tomiki's shomen-response drill starts earlier, and so has a shorter distance (thus more direct and shallower), so is basically one aspect of the same movement as the other aiki styles.

Sure. Some people would prefer to practice against shallow/direct attacks, right?

as in kungfu, all aikidoka learn in low stance for practise, and higher stances for the higher level practitioner.

Similarly: Sure. Some people would prefer to practice with high stances, right?

I'm just observing that such people might find the Tomiki styles characteristically intriguing.

As Kenso says, so do the others, they just don't call it kuzushi. Not sure what you mean by power either in this case.

AFAIK, every martial art uses off-balance in some capacity. That doesn't mean they're all the same. As I said, I'm simply conveying what Tomiki's perspective was. See here and here.

[Mr Punch]

Sorry Chris M, thought you were suggesting there was a fundamental difference in their principles through their differences in training technique.

I am familiar with Tomiki, though not as much as some of the other shuha, and I don't believe there is anything fundamentally different about their principles.


Cheers Vapour, excellent article, interesting and new to me. Is this a commonly known concept among Japanese aiki teachers or has it all been superceded by the seemingly common explanation of 'harmonising with your opponent's energy'? I've never heard of this before. My kendo sensei did mention it once, but not related to aikido... I'll have to ask him. Looks like I'll be investigating Yoshimine Yasuo's dojo if it's near Tokyo!

[jun_erh]

If you really love fighting and competing and you love to hit things and kick things and hurt others willingly then Aikido is not for you,,,,go do something else.

so basically it sucks.

[The Willow Sword]

for someone,not you necessarily, who likes to hurt and brutalize others in stupid and frivolous competitions and feels that they are a better person by hurting and dominating another,,,,,then i guess aikido DOES "suck".

peace,,,TWS

[Black Jack]

Mat-

is it a viable self defense art?

The above is the question pondered by red5angel which IMO would of been better stated as does aikido offer a viable self defense method of training.

My answer was no and still would be no.

It was not intended to be trite and cut offish. Just to the point as this topic has been cut to death and layered with garlic butter so many times that my response and others on the subject has been covered before.

I look at that question from a single non-holistic non-pc non-group think dimension. If the question was can aikido offer value or help enhance certain elements of the fight game than that would be different but it was not the question. Lets just say for short of a big answer that I don't agree with aikido and its spiritual tradition disguised as a means of proper street self defense alone. I belief that the system creates a willing suspension of disbelief for its students who train to for lack of a better word fight within that given method of philosophy.

I consider myself a pragmatist not an artist so that is where the criticisim comes from.

Here is a question.

Would you recommend aikido as a viable method of self defense to a rape victim or a young women looking to protect herself in a bad enviroment?

[The Willow Sword]

actually a post of yours that i sort of agree with. you may yet be actually showing signs of intelligence.

Peace,,,TWS


"Would you recommend aikido as a viable method of self defense to a rape victim or a young women looking to protect herself in a bad enviroment?"

as for my asnwer to this good question? NO

[Black Jack]

I will sleep better now

[Becca]

Originally posted by Black Jack
Here is a question.

Would you recommend aikido as a viable method of self defense to a rape victim or a young women looking to protect herself in a bad enviroment?

With a teacher who is willing to teach it as a form of self-defence- yes. But most teachers of the style will not do this... Then you'd end up with b@stardized Aikido and then you pizz off Mat...

[Golden Arms]

Originally posted by Black Jack
Here is a question.

Would you recommend aikido as a viable method of self defense to a rape victim or a young women looking to protect herself in a bad enviroment?


As stated before: YES, but only if it is taught and then practiced correctly. My Sensei was a Judo player for almost 15 years before he started learning Aikido, and if he didnt want to use the 'nice' aikido to help you down, he would just switch to judo to show you how it was better for you to 'let' him control you softly..under the soft was leverage and control. Anyways..the 2nd worst round of ukemi I have ever had to take was for a 100lb japanese woman who could leverage my joints and sidestep me like noones business, so it has its merits for women. Will it work for the majority of people..I really couldnt say.

[The Willow Sword]

regarding teaching Aikido to women as a viable means of self defense. comeon guys this isnt some judo face off and you cant just teach a woman who has been the victim of a rape the movements associated with aikido and expect her to walk away feeling confident. its too complex and is NOT going to instill within her the CONFIDENCE she needs to get over the hump of being attacked and the confidence to never allow anyone to do that to her again. she would be better off taking track and field and learning how to RUN fast than stepping in to an aikido dojo. this also goes for women who have not been raped or assaulted, who are wanting to learn self defense.

what i would reccomend to women for self defense? Krav maga
or Pakua. and the reason i mention krav maga is because it is an enviroment that is more conducive to what women are looking for in self defense classes. I mention Pakua because that art teaches very good evasion techniques.

Peace,,,TWS

[shaolinboxer]

Although I spend much of my free time practicing aikido, I would not say that it is the best thing to learn if your main interest is success in violent encounters.

Here is a very direct question posted earlier:

"Would you recommend aikido as a viable method of self defense to a rape victim or a young women looking to protect herself in a bad enviroment?"

No, clearly not. However, I would recommend it as a thereputic format for learning to trust other human beings again.

Self defense should be like a course in emergency swimming. You learn the dead man crawl, how to float...a few things to keep you alive that are so simple you can still do them while you're nearly dead.

Martial art is a lifestyle activity that includes self defense as part of the training. Aikido is a fairly interesting and safe one to practice.

IMO, my fellow aikidoist who flip out over comments regarding aikido's lack of realistic self defense training are over estimating their teachers and telling way too many campfire stories.

It is what it is.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by shaolinboxer
"Would you recommend aikido as a viable method of self defense to a rape victim or a young women looking to protect herself in a bad enviroment?"

No, clearly not. However, I would recommend it as a thereputic format for learning to trust other human beings again.

I agree with shaolin boxer here, but for a young woman looking to protect herself, it'd be as useful or nor as many others, depending on the teacher. It would offer, good evasion from and breaks of grips, good evasive footwork, good use of distancing, the occasional low maintenance lock, and a certain presence of mind coupled with an absence of sheer panic.

Self defense should be like a course in emergency swimming. You learn the dead man crawl, how to float...a few things to keep you alive that are so simple you can still do them while you're nearly dead.

Excellently put.

Martial art is a lifestyle activity that includes self defense as part of the training. Aikido is a fairly interesting and safe one to practice.

IMO, my fellow aikidoist who flip out over comments regarding aikido's lack of realistic self defense training are over estimating their teachers and telling way too many campfire stories.

It is what it is.

Again agreed. But then, my fellow aikidoist who spout on about how spiritual it is, then try and tell you it's the best self defence form out there ("I would do this, and this, and then this...!") whilst slavering on in a condescending manner about how martial art is above fighting also need to spend less time around the campfire (or in the bar) and more time on the mat...!

Or did you mean me...?! I'd like to think I was contributing to a discussion, not 'flipping out'!

[shrugs] Some teachers are good, and some campfire stories are true! But again, you have a point.

Just thought I'd resurrect this thread for a friend of mine...

[Becca]

Originally posted by sc_guy
If Aikido is right then everybody else are wrong.

- One hand can do the locking.
- One hand can do the throwing.
- Throwing require no leg moves.
- Kicking and punchings do not exist.
- You don't need "entering", he will always come to you.
- Person sit on the floor can reach the person's neck who stands on his feet and throw him.
- When somebody runs toward you, all you need is to bend down in front of him and he would fall over your head.
- Aikido can bring you to a spirit level and allow you to speak to God.

Of course if your teacher has not taught you how to do this then you better find another teacher.

Have you seen God lately?

No?

Your church sucks. Find yourself another church!

Are you saying that just because you don't agree with that frame of mind, you have the right to cut down anyone who studies this art? Are you saying that this absolutely what is being taught? I studied an art similar to Akido. I don't remember ever being told any of that. Finally... Would you apriciate some one who likely has no effing clue trashing your school based on nothing but a few examples of basic forms and nothing else? For this is what you are doing, my friend.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Mat
But perhaps the questions should be:

What is a viable self-defence art?

What do you want from a self-defence art?

Do you even believe in a self-defence art?

Why are you asking?

Will you believe a random internet nonentity who says he has effectively used it on the door, in the street, in sparring, falling out of a tree and in a major civil disturbance?

Is it not true that you already have preconceptions that will not be altered one way or the other by anyone else's answer?

If you want a serious discussion on this, please search the forum first (it has been discussed at length, especially by people who had preconceptions, or conceptions based like those of so many martial arts, on just witnessing the shoddy and badly taught), go to some self-defence, aikido and/or police unarmed classes, or find somebody you could trust from aiki to go over the basic concepts or to spar with you...

Cheers.

Good God, Mat. I hope we don't have this to look forward to every time someone asks a question here. It's a bloody discussion forum. Discussions are to be expected.

[Meat Shake]

Originally posted by sc_guy
If Aikido is right then everybody else are wrong.

- One hand can do the locking.
- One hand can do the throwing.
- Throwing require no leg moves.
- Kicking and punchings do not exist.
- You don't need "entering", he will always come to you.
- Person sit on the floor can reach the person's neck who stands on his feet and throw him.
- When somebody runs toward you, all you need is to bend down in front of him and he would fall over your head.
- Aikido can bring you to a spirit level and allow you to speak to God.

Of course if your teacher has not taught you how to do this then you better find another teacher.

Have you seen God lately?

No?

Your church sucks. Find yourself another church!

Bahahahahha....
good stuff.