Aikido?

[Water Dragon]

ST00
How valuable do you think Aikido training would be to a Judo black belt?

[backbreaker]

I don't know any aikido , but I've heard they use no sweeps or kicks. It seems to me that putting a leg in between the opponent and the ground would allow more opputunities to end a fight. Does this have to do with the aikido philosophy or something?

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

IMO, Aikido is a very viable Self Defense art.

Like with many other styles there is also a lot of rubbish & politics associated with it.

From what I hear Ueshiba-San never even wanted to name what he did or even class it as a seperate style.
Kinda similar to Bruce Lee's JKD, something that he created for himself and people took it and went away from it's intended purpose.

Most of the splits are recent and I think another group split off very recently.

Having seen a few direct students of Ueshiba-San I must say that my respect for the art few a lot.
You need a good and reputable teacher like in any other art.

[norther practitioner]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
Philbert, How would that get you any closer to the truth? ( I am a poster on e-budo)

go to a Shotokan karate forum and ske them if they think they are good.

go to a Hung Gar forum and ask them if they are good.

Go to a kempo forum and ask them if they are good.

in fact I'd like to you to find a forum that says "no. we suck!"

Or go to a kung fu forum and tell them they suck.. oh wait, happens ever day here...lol

Aikido has its good and bad.... I haven't crossed hands with a practitioner that only does aikido.


My art sucks..

NP

[Christopher M]

Tomiki style and its offshoots are really intriguing.

They use shomenate (straight push/strike) as a foundation rather than the shomenuchi (straight chop) common to the other styles. Although it seems like a minor difference, so much of the meat of the actions is in bridging and entering, which are precisely the mechanics that get changed in this variation.

Also, they use kuzushi (offbalance) like in judo. Tomiki claims the other aikido styles primarily use speed and power, whereas his uses offbalance. Perhaps because of this, the Tomiki stylists favor higher, neutral and natural stances over the deep entries found in other styles.

Also they do randori and shiai.

[Becca]

(Inhale, and grimmace)....

Akido is, in principle, nearly identical to Chin Na. It uses the same techniques, just aplied a bit differently. If you can make Chin Na work for you, you can make Akido work for you.



(Runs like heck to dodge the flamming insults...)

[Oso]

LOL at Becca's reply.

ok, this might be a good place to ask this...

what exactly is the relationship between aikijutsu, jujutsu, judo and aikido?

my understanding is that jujutsu is oldest, aikijutsu next, then judo and aikido, but I'm not sure.

never done aikido but aikijutsu has some different methods from jujutsu.

Becca, I would say that chin na has some aikido principles in it but wouldn't say it was identical. IMHO, chin na and jujutsu are most nearly identical. but that is based on my understanding that jujutsu is the oldest of those japanese arts and that the japanese arts are descended from okinawan arts that are descended from chinese arts.

but, it's all just semantics, really.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

The Aikido Histories claim he learned the following styles:

1.) Daito Ryu Aikijutsu
2.) Kito-Ryu jujutsu
3.) Shinkage-Ryu kenjutsu
4.) Tenjin Shin'yo-Ryu jujutsu

Weapons he learned were sword, staff & spear.

This is for Aikikai naturally.

[Oso]

so, I'm close if Ueshiba learned jujutsu and aikijutsu prior to developing aikido.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by Oso
so, I'm close if Ueshiba learned jujutsu and aikijutsu prior to developing aikido.

Yes, you are correct there.

The biggest influence was Daito Ryu, when he started teaching in 1927 he taught "Ueshiba Aiki-jutsu".

Aikido as such was only formulated much later after the met the reverend Deguchi (Monk), the aikikai was only founded in 1945.

[edit]
AFAIK, he was only got permission to teach Daito Ryu as a style, not the others.
[/edit]

[PHILBERT]

ST00, I did not mean so much as "Is it effective" but ask them WHY Aikido would work as a viable defensive art.

My old art teacher from last year was a practioner of Aikido. He looked like a hippy, and it was funny. He had really long hair, a beard and mustache, and stuff. When we were drawing, he was explaining how we should relax blah blah blah and said "This is what the Japanese call Ki..." and I just looked up and said "Yeah and the Chinese call is Qi." He asked me later about how I knew what he was talking about when everyone else just kind of stared at him blankly.

Water Dragon, not sure about how a Judo black belt would do in it, but I remember meeting someone who did Aikido who said a student in his class who was a black belt in JuJutsu and was progressing very rapidly in the art because of the similarities. While not identical per se, Aikido has roots in JuJutsu, so practioners of JuJutsu would progress faster. Such as if a JuJutsu practioner took up Judo, sure he'd have to learn some things, but he should progress faster.

[Kempo Guy]

There's also evidence that Ueshiba learned Kashima Shinto Ryu and Yagyu Shingan Ryu...

my understanding is that jujutsu is oldest, aikijutsu next, then judo and aikido, but I'm not sure

I recall reading that the first jujutsu ryu was Takenouchi ryu which was developed during the Muromachi period (early to mid 16th century). So you are correct in saying that Jujutsu is the oldest.

FWIW, jujutsu / yawara / kogusoku / torite etc. seem to have been used around the same time period to describe empty handed arts (taught by various ryuha).

Aikijutsu is part of jujutsu (in the context of Daito Ryu). The term aikijutsu is apparently mentioned in some Kenjutsu ryu as well as at least another jujutsu ryu (Yanagi Ryu Aiki Bugei), so it is not exclusive to Daito Ryu as some may suggest.

Aikido as such was only formulated much later after the met the reverend Deguchi (Monk), the aikikai was only founded in 1945

Onisaburo Deguchi was the leader and co-founder of a Shinto sect called Omoto Kyo which heavily influenced Ueshiba Sensei.

AFAIK, he was only got permission to teach Daito Ryu as a style, not the others.

What do you mean?
Do you mean that Ueshiba was the only one who was given permission to teach others Daito Ryu?
In which case your statement is erronous. He received a "Kyoju Dairi" (teaching certificate) from Sokaku Takeda. There were several individuals who received this particular certificate from him. And I believe there were at least two individuals who received a Menkyo Kaiden (certificate of full transmission) from Takeda as well, Ueshiba is not one of them.

KG

[ShaolinTiger00]

WD,

after reaching shodan, a judoka might find some of the aspects of aikido can offer a few subtle additives to his submissions. ("revving the arm" in ude garami) a few wrist locks one held down by good position. a few finger attacks etc.

an additive, not a substitute..

[jun_erh]

I freind of mine took it for a few years before swithing to BJJ. He said akido was "great if someone is running at yu like this" and made a motion of someone sort of diving at you with two arms.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by Kempo Guy

What do you mean?
Do you mean that Ueshiba was the only one who was given permission to teach others Daito Ryu?
In which case your statement is erronous. He received a "Kyoju Dairi" (teaching certificate) from Sokaku Takeda. There were several individuals who received this particular certificate from him. And I believe there were at least two individuals who received a Menkyo Kaiden (certificate of full transmission) from Takeda as well, Ueshiba is not one of them.

KG

What I meant is that Ueshiba could ONLY teach Daito Ryo as a system, as he never got the "Kyoju Dairi" for any other style that he studied.