Sports mindset versus Street mindset

[Tallgeese]

As a practioner of martial arts (& I have a black belt in four codes) I often 'train for sport' however, there is another dimension which is unfortunately not addressed enough, that is the so-called 'street-fight' system. Although 'sports' training is useful, it isn't sufficient on its own. Developing the right mindset is often the hard part. Martial Arts, in general were intended for combat, but their practice often meant that rules had to be obeyed to avoid injury. Unfortunately no one can fully replicate a real fight where 'anything goes' & this can mean that a good martial artist doesn't fare well.

Likewise, certain practioners (ie: Gracie-Jujitsu or MMA -Mixed Martial Artists-) base their entire theory on the idea that most fights end up on the ground, thus place greater emphasis on 'ground fighting' which doesn't have enough emphasis in Kung Fu. Indeed, the people who end up on the ground are usually amatures or at least one is trained specirfically for ground fighting. Often Kung Fu, Kenpo or Karate don't focus enough on ground fighting & as such many practitioners end up in the unfarmiliar world of ground-fighting against an expert in the field.

A 'real fight' sometimes involves fighting more than one person or weapons (usually knives or daggers). However, to build confidence, a martial artist must train knowing the true power he/she possesses. Sometimes it can be harder to instill this confidence. As such, 'gym sparring' should at times be made as realistic as possible, with no gloves, helmet, or protective gear as to give the real feeling of one's power, speed, & tenacity. While this may seem brutal, it is an imperfect replication of a real street fight. The only time I'd call 'halt' is when someone gives up or when a 'locking position' has been achieved thus, rendering someone's limb useless.

To develop the fight mindset requires more than just training. It involves high standards of fitness & mental training. My coach would often make me do 30 minutes (continious) of jump rope before making me jog (with sprints) until I was one the verge of collapse. This ensured that when I did eventually get into a street fight, I wasn't puffing (as many martial artists do). Often the cardio-vasscular performance of a boxer is superior to that of a martial artist. However, a boxer falls short on flexibility. Both are needed in self-defence.

Fitness remains the key as somebody who can overcome the adrenelene of a street fight, & continue despite the 'shock' & full 'adrenelene-pump' will eventually be replaced by full confidence. In retrospect, a 'real fight' is like one's first sparring match or even first fully fledged fight without the rules. This means that those who train regularly & keep in their mind that limitations are imposed merely for safety will succeed in translating technique to devastating real effect.

[Wong Fei Hong]

I find the biggest difference is the mindset, in the ring you want to go the distance not run out of wind and not get hit too much etc.
In the street you want to take the guy out asap one move better do the damage so you can go apesh!t on him .

[JaguarWarrior]

And then in a street fight there is still some restraint depending on the situation. In many fights you don't need to use your arm breaks and eye gouges, and if you do your likely to get yourself sued unless you get your ass out of there fast after the fight. The only time I would use those techniques would be in extreme situations or if weapons are involved. But then since I don't actually get to practice breaking arms outside of forms, would I even want to try?

[Iron_Eagle_76]

My belief is in training. Those who spar at medium to full contact gives the most realitstic settings, and training for grappling or at the very least grappling defenses, (I think I;ve mentioned sprawl too many times), but those stand the best chance on the street. I have been in four "street" fights, and can honestly say, you never know until it happens. I can say that out of the four fights I have been in since training martial arts, all but one went to the ground. Train hard and be prepared.

[SevenStar]

First off, nice name. I am a gundam fan as well. Now, on to business...

Likewise, certain practioners (ie: Gracie-Jujitsu or MMA -Mixed Martial Artists-) base their entire theory on the idea that most fights end up on the ground, thus place greater emphasis on 'ground fighting' which doesn't have enough emphasis in Kung Fu. Indeed, the people who end up on the ground are usually amatures or at least one is trained specirfically for ground fighting. Often Kung Fu, Kenpo or Karate don't focus enough on ground fighting & as such many practitioners end up in the unfarmiliar world of ground-fighting against an expert in the field.

what you are saying here was true about 11 years ago, and even then what you are saying is only half right. MMA don't base their assumption on all fights going to the ground. MMA was created to PREVENT themselves from going to the ground. GJJ never had that assumption either, really. If you ever learn any GJJ self defense, you will see that most of it is standup based. However, the ground is an aspect that can't be overlooked. According to police stats, most fights DO end up on the ground, and the gracies used that to sell the world on bjj. To end up on the ground does NOT mean that you are an amateur. It means that you got taken down by someone intent on taking you down. Unless you are adept at avoiding takedowns, you will be taken down if you fight someone that REALLY wants to take you down. If you don't believe me, just go to a local bjj school and tell them what you posted here.

A 'real fight' sometimes involves fighting more than one person or weapons (usually knives or daggers). However, to build confidence, a martial artist must train knowing the true power he/she possesses. Sometimes it can be harder to instill this confidence. As such, 'gym sparring' should at times be made as realistic as possible, with no gloves, helmet, or protective gear as to give the real feeling of one's power, speed, & tenacity. While this may seem brutal, it is an imperfect replication of a real street fight. The only time I'd call 'halt' is when someone gives up or when a 'locking position' has been achieved thus, rendering someone's limb useless.

When you are doing something full contact with literally hundreds of punches coming at your head repeatedly, you would be a fool to train unprotected, full contact on a regular basis, unless of course you WANT your brain to turn to mush. It's not about being too "brutal" it's about safety and keeping sparring partners. At the least, wear mma gloves and a mouth guard.

To develop the fight mindset requires more than just training. It involves high standards of fitness & mental training. My coach would often make me do 30 minutes (continious) of jump rope before making me jog (with sprints) until I was one the verge of collapse. This ensured that when I did eventually get into a street fight, I wasn't puffing (as many martial artists do). Often the cardio-vasscular performance of a boxer is superior to that of a martial artist. However, a boxer falls short on flexibility. Both are needed in self-defence.

Actually, he doesn't. All he needs is to be flexible enough to box. Where do you think any extreme flexibility comes into play?

[SevenStar]

I find the biggest difference is the mindset, in the ring you want to go the distance not run out of wind and not get hit too much etc.
In the street you want to take the guy out asap one move better do the damage so you can go apesh!t on him .

In the ring, you don't WANT to trade blows. you want to take him out quick. The problem is that you can't always do that. Why? Because he is just as well trained, if not better trained, than you are.

[SevenStar]

But then since I don't actually get to practice breaking arms outside of forms, would I even want to try?

EXACTLY!!! And that is a point many people look over. "In the street I'd gouge his eyes or hit him in the throat..." What makes you think you could execute it properly when you can't properly practice it? You are in a situation where

1. you are in danger
2. adrenaline is flowing

And you are supposed to pull of things you can't even practice? Sometimes that may work, but why take the gamble?

[GeneChing]

Check out the cover story in our Jan/Feb 2006 issue. Master David Charng discusses divisions in training within his system that specifically address street fighting vs. sport fighting, as well as self defense. He's a police combat trainer in Taiwan.

[greensage22]

I honestly think that form is most important, "shows you how"
sparing is second "shows you where"
free sparing or street fighting thrid "shows you why"

the free sparing with friends and street fighting
lets you know what you do right and wrong, it also shows you your true power.
it is best to do full contact but half power sparring with friends to develop
your personal best, or new more you movements.

I my fight club we have a solid ground fighter/grapler
a 6ft3 275 pound "sumo" basically
a tai chi practitioner
a shotokan black belt
and me shotokan green belt and mma

the name of our game is one person is it. the rest jump in and out looking for openings on the it person and attacking. then about every 4 min the it person
changes. it forces you to change tech/tactics every second, we find it very helpful
for when you do just get attacked for real, it makes you well rounded. not to mention if you do enough free sparring your reflexs get quick really quick.

But you can't spar until you know how to move your body correctly.
and have a basic understanding of techniques "fatal-non-fatal-disabiling-pain ect."

The only problem with doing something in a ring for martial arts class is that they have been trained to fight similar, go find some diversity is my advice
you can always learn from mistakes in a real fight but you have to survive the fight first......

[TenTigers]

"When you shake hands with any stranger, you should always use both of your hands to shake one of his hand."

sorry, I beg to differ. If you shake my right hand with both of yours, and I raise my right hand, both of your hands go with it. You are married to my right hand, and I still have a hand free. In Southern Gung-Fu-that is a Bozo No-No.
Instead, keep your left relaxed near your right shoulder-in a non-threatening manner, ready to punch, or parry, or lock. When I was in Tang Soo Do, we were instructed to shake hands with our left hand under our right arm,as a sign of trust, and non aggression. Only when I am shaking hands with MA buddies, NEVER with a stranger.

[TenTigers]

The difference between sport and street is , in sport, like boxing, you are trying to KO me. In Gung-Fu (street) I am trying to kill you. If I knock you down, or KO you, it is only because I was fighting inneffectively.

[SevenStar]

The intent is different, but the likely outcome is the same (provided you are the victor) you may WANT to kill me, but chances are you most likely will not. For that reason, from an SD perspective, I don't see that much difference between the two. If I elbow you in the temple, it may or may not kill you, may or may not KO you. But it's the same elbow, be it thai boxing or longfist. In either event you want to end the action, and with either outcome, you will.

[SevenStar]

Breaking limbs won't end the street fight.

that depends on the mentality of whom you are fighting and which limb(s) you break.

[Taiji-Rory]

[QUOTE=Breaking limbs won't end the street fight.[/QUOTE]
hmmm what is this the hunt for the holy grail, "Tis a mere flesh wound” When you encounter people on the street you are not fighting the terminator, who absolutely will not stop until you are dead, I am lead to believe that the breaking of a limb, or dislocation of a joint, regardless of relative size is exquisitely painful, further no amount of adrenalin can compensate against such acute pain...

a singular break absolutely will not end a street fight if you are fighting multiple assailants because you have only disabled one, however if you shatter a joint on each, this will stop the fight, but will likely land you in prison.

[SevenStar]

I've known people who have fought through broken hands, ribs, fingers and toes. Like I said, it depends on the mentality of the person and what's broken on them.