value of forms/katas

[JWTAYLOR]

Run and call their buddies to bring a video camera so they can make some money on World's Funniest Home video.
They they'd sell it to Fox as World's Worst A$$ Whoopings.
JWT

[HuangKaiVun]

Yeah, most dudes will run TOWARD a crane-stanced kung fu guy to knock him off balance.

In truth, the crane stance is more a training device to teach good balance and the ability to stand on one leg than it is a sparring stance.

Few people realize that a more practical application of the "Crow Spreads Wings" stance in the "Karate Kid" (used by Danielsan to kick John Lawrence into submission in the final fight) is that of a knee to the groin when the opponent is grabbing your anterior chest with two hands.

This move also has a groundfighting application, especially for women being attacked by men in the mount position.

[Kristoffer]

I DON'T agree.. any punk would be scared if confronted with a crane-stance victim. I don't think the crane is good for fighting on the streets but someone that never trained any MA would be scared, cause they would think:
"oh my GOD he is some sort o kung fu master o somthin! I'd best be runnin outta ere before he stomps ma A$$!"

[GinSueDog]

Actually, I think you would be inviting the "punk" so to speak to use your face and head as a speed bag. I once saw a video that showed real life streetfights, most of them I think from Canada. Anyway there was this one guy that ran out into the street with this big guy chasing him. Well the guy being chased suddenly stops and drops into a horse stance and fires a finger jab at the big guy chasing him. To make a short story shorter the finger jab missed and the big guy kicked the other guy's butt without any problem. Moral of the story is do not assume something is going to work, unless you have pulled it off, and never assume it will work all the time.-ED

[stickfighter]

I agree, assuming a stance like the crane prior to a conflict, trying to scare of an opponent would not be disasterous, but down right funny. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] It would be far better to use a basic boxing stance. Performed correctly it would be enough give an attacker second thoughts. I'm not saying that a crane stance may not have it's uses in a fight, but it has to be "snuck" into the fight.

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Stickfighter

[Monkey]

Forms are fundamental to kung-fu. If you can't fight with your forms it is because your kung-fu is no good, not that the forms have no value.
I study Hsing-I and the forms/kata are directly translatable into very good fighting techniques. No need to use kickboxing techs when Hsing-I is SO GOOD for combat.
I have found, however, that shaolin students tend to use kickboxing because they never were taught how to make the transition from forms to fighting.
Pretty soon shaolin will be the same as dancing, lots of pretty movement but no depth.

[HuangKaiVun]

Has anyone out there met in person or fought a kung fu practitioner who could dissect his solo sets and use the techniques on an unwilling opponent?

I haven't yet, although I've noticed that a lot of those guys who CAN are probably posting here on this forum!

[Kristoffer]

Helooooooo?? Did anyone actually read my post? I NEVER said that crane stance would be fitting for street fighting but I think it would scare the HELL out of an attacker!!

[Kristoffer]

besides, whats the bad attitude against shaolin kung fu?

[Kristoffer]

Are we going down that pit hole again?

[shenden]

I've noticed a few things creeping in again. First of all, I think crane stance isn't taught as a stance to fight for extended periods under, it is specialised, and very good for quick snapping kicks. It should be quickly assumed, attacked from and move into a more stable, defensive position.

Second, i keep hearing people say, if you drop into horse stance, you will be kicked in the balls (not too put too fine a point in it). The horse stance is designed for stability from the side, so guess where your opponent should be when you take this stance? To your side, of course, not like when you assume it and practice techniques in class, this is to provide a nice platform that allows techniques to be practiced, while strengthening the legs, this is not its combat application! This will prevent almost any attack being thrown at your groin, as it isn't even visible in the horse stance! If a stance is in a combat art, and it leaves a vital striking point (esp the groin!) open, you have the application wrong.

[Robinf]

Thank you for pointing that out, Shendon.

[INFINOO]

I have been taught from my teacher that you first must learn the form, perfectly, then you are taught the applications of the form. This is vital if one is to understand the how and why of the movements and principles and applications. It seems to be working pretty well for me. I think that alot depends on how well, and how much you practice. It also vital to have a teacher that can do the the forms and knows applications of the forms, and is willing to show you . From what I understand this is how the Military still teaches and so there must be value in this approach. A good example is www.rovere.com vidio (Body gaurd knife form) and the second (applications)tape. In the first tape you learn the form and the second you learn the applications.
(Just remember when all else fails do what you have been taught). ha ha .
Hope this helps. INFINOO

[This message has been edited by INFINOO (edited 04-23-2000).]

[This message has been edited by INFINOO (edited 04-24-2000).]

[Monkey]

HuangKaiVun
I'd say you've never met anyone with good kung-fu.
This is because you have had poor instruction. Don't judge others by your own ability, just because you cannot use your forms for fighting don't assume others cannot. I've met many good KF'rs that can indeed use the techniques from their forms.

[This message has been edited by Monkey (edited 04-24-2000).]

[HuangKaiVun]

You're right: my instructors have been poor. So have been the ones I've seen.

That doesn't mean that I can't use my forms, thank God!