What is wrong with Bruce Kumar Frantzis?

[Doug]

Hello,

I have read a few posts on this forum where some people do not have a lot of good things to say about Bruce Kumar Frantzis. I have never met him, but his books and videos are what really got me interested in Chinese martial arts. My question for this thread is what is so bad about him that causes some people to speak negatively about him or his practices.

I recently conducted a Google search for Frantzis and Seagal. In this search, I varied the terms used: "jerk Seagal," "a*s Seagal," "b*tch Seagal," "f*ck Seagal," loser Seagal," and so forth. I conducted the same search with Frantzis. While nearly everything provided results for Steven Seagal, there were none provided for Bruce Kumar Frantzis. I could not find anything against his teachings, ethics, standards, or business online.

So why do some of you not like him? I would like to bring some clarity to this matter because some claims are made about him here that usually go unchecked or unchallenged. These claims, in my opinion, are unfair when not supplied with reasons to support them.

Thanks,

Doug M

[Ren Blade]

You're talking about Kumar from Boston? I don't know him personally or seen much of him. I just heard that he doesn't look pretty when he does forms. But he's a good fighter.

[NorthernShaolin]

Aren't you talking about the guy in Sacramento, California who is heavy set and has claimed that he is the best push hands person in Tai Chi Chuan?

[Doug]

This is the person in question. He claimed this? When? Where? Details, please.

Thanks,

Doug M

[NorthernShaolin]

Let me clarify as I do not want to flame anyone. If this is the same person that I'm thinking , he learned from various masters in China and claims that they told information only reserved for special students. I only heard second hand he has stated that he has not met anyone who can really challenge him in pushing hands. His tactics is that he waits for his opponents to make the first move, then uses his weight to counter attack. Not what I would call correct Yin and Yang but more like brute force.

That's all I really know.

[Walter Joyce]

I have done seminars with Kumar and studied with someone who spent 10 years training with him.

He is not based in Boston, but in California.

He was one of the first Americans to go to mainland China (after Japan, Taiwan, and also to India) to study internal arts, including chinese medicine and also was a taoist priest. Putting all else aside, he should be respected and acknowledged as helping to open the channels along with other Americans who took the time to travel to China and helped open the lines of communication.

His IMA skills are real, his knowledge is deep. I'm not crazy about his personality, but I respect his accomplishments and knowledge.

His is admittedly a controversial figure.

Push hands claims aside either fictional or real (thats the problem with second hand information) I would want to fight him.

FWIW

[shaolinboxer]

He visits an internal school here in manhattan that i have some friends at from time to time.

Word around here is he's the real deal. Never met him but friends like him.

[backbreaker]

When I was learning chen style taiji my teacher said that he had visited Kumar Frantziz I think, or all of his students.I think he said Bruce Kumar frantziz, anyways.Unless I'm remembering wrong , my chen teacher said no Kumar Frantziz student could apply any chin na on him due to his high chen style skills, and they all knew him because of this. He is not very big.I heard this 2 years ago so I hope I'm not mixing him up with someone else.

[crumble]

The book didn't do it for me. The character sketches were interesting, but the book was filled with lots of general statements "about" the arts. 300 pages and nothing concrete on "how". In the end, it was just a bunch of words to take on faith, nothing was presented that could be tested.

There aren't any "Combat Secrets" in "The Power of Internal Martial Arts: Combat Secrets of Ba Gua, Tai Chi, and Hsing-I". It's an inspirational book which is why people like it, but like most inspirational books it only inspires people that already believe.

-crumble

[NorthernShaolin]

I went out and brought his book and I completely agree with crumble. Nothing new in his book, just inspiration.

[Internal Boxer]

When Bruce came to London he booked a lesson with Master Chu King Hung, and got creamed at push hands, although Chu did say it took him a while to find his centre and Bruce has about a 60 pound advantage over Chu. Chu advocates nei-gung, hammer work, tendon dev etc, so for all Bruces Chi development he was no match for Chu.
(A very reliable source from the Longfei association told me)

Besides, I have never met Bruce, But I have seen how expensive his day courses are, for fancy Chi-gungs, only the very wealthy need apply!

[Syd]

I've had little to do with the guy but his vibe has never been my particular bag, I doubt it ever will either.

[Walter Joyce]

Check out this thread.

You have someone asking about a prominent figure, then a lot of misinformation from people who don't even know the person.

Next is a query about what someone MIGHT have heard Kumar say in re push hands.

Followed by critiques of his book. (YOU want "how to" on internals from a BOOK? Wake up. Get a teacher. With very few exceptions (Tim Cartmell's work mainly) you don't get how to on internals from books.)

Then more vague assertions again based on opinion without encounter.

Next a claim from a "reliable" source as to Kumar's defeat at the hands of the Last disciple of Yang Sau Hung (funny, his second disciple, with whom I have actually trained, refused to give Kumar a lesson.) And btw, I won't get into the second hand info I have heard about him from people in the same lineage.

Yeah great info on this thread so far.

ROFLMAO

[wujidude]

Breathe, Walter, remember to breathe.

[crumble]

Originally posted by Walter Joyce
YOU want "how to" on internals from a BOOK? Wake up. Get a teacher. With very few exceptions (Tim Cartmell's work mainly) you don't get how to on internals from books.)

I know you can't "get it" from a book. There isn't an opportunity for correcting that a teacher provides. But a teacher can describe how, knowing that to "find" how is going to take one-on-one corrections.

Anyway, of course I want his "how to", don't you? Even when you have a teacher, aren't you interested in other teacher's approaches? It sounds like we both enjoyed some Tim Cartmell books. Too bad there aren't more like them...

I think there is a lot you can learn from a book. They can help you from making naive decisions when you are first starting out -- saving you lots of time. That's the sort of thing I was hoping for. But I don't think Kumar's book helps in that respect.