What is wrong with Bruce Kumar Frantzis?

[Syd]

Starts humming "Gold" and "True"...

[scotty1]

*clicking his fingers*

Ba ba ba ba, ba....

[jun_erh]

Alot of the guys that come up here, particularly white guys, seem to have obvious talent but are perceived as arrogant. I only have one book of BK Frantzis it's not even his, he just translated it or something it's called "ancient way to keep fit" and his involvement with it sets him off on the right foot with me. I doubt he's the greatest grandmaster ever, but he again, he's probably talented.

and I like the dada-ness of the topic title.

"Careful with that axe, Eugene" -Syd Barret 68

[Syd]

Careful with that axe eugene was actually written by Roger Waters. Syd didn't play but one track on Saucerful of Secrets, it was a little bit of guitar on Remember a Day and Jugband Blues was the only song he actually wrote and sang.

[jun_erh]

I didn't know that. I think I heard it via "relics" which had more stuff by him. remember a day is awesome.

[Doug]

Perhaps, then, there will be no more accusations about Bruce Kumar Frantzis since no one is backing up any more claims.

Thanks for all the help,

Doug M

[Kaitain(UK)]

all seems a bit pointless to me?

If he did or didn't 'lose' in pushing hands with other people is neither here nor there - if he can teach good IMA then he's worth looking at. If he is reported to have made grand claims, then so what? Loads of people do it in MA to raise their profile - it's just business. Look past the surface and see what he has to offer.

Surprised at your vehemence though Walter usually you are pretty chilled out.

And re pushing hands - receive and then issue is a pretty good strategy to me. If he was all about brute force then he wouldn't be beating anyone with any skill. Unless we're all training a useless method that falls apart under an assault of mass....

This is the voice of experience btw - I had the joy of defending John Ding on here and also of attacking Dan Doherty. Growing up takes time

[scotty1]

Don't suppose you've got a link to the attack on Dan Docherty have you?

Be interested to read it, that's for sure.
or if you could PM or email me that would be good too.

[Kaitain(UK)]

I've just had a look through my post history and I can't find reference to it - just a bunch of stuff that makes me cringe to read it now I think it was before the board got reset a couple of years ago

I think it went like this though - I'd been to train with one of Dan's instructors in Kent and I wasn't impressed with what I'd seen and experienced. I'd also read a few articles on Dan's website that I found pretty offensive and so I came and had a rant on here - then a bunch of people that I respect on here came out and said they were students of Dan so I figured it best to stfu. I think we actually managed to turn it into a useful discussion on leaning in Wu style.

Looking through my old posts I have found a whole lot of vitriol against Earle Montague Man I used to go off on one about him - it used to be Sam Wiley versus the entire board... ah the heady days of 'my style is best'

[scotty1]

Yeah I think Dan's schools definitely vary.

I'm at the Brighton one. I know Liokault is a student of dan's at Oxford.

Can you remember who else on the forum said they were a student of Dan's?

[Kaitain(UK)]

Man, I can't remember the guy's handle - he was based in Sweden

cool - I didn't know there was good Taiji in Brighton. I spend lots of time down there. Born and raised in Brighton so I like going back whenever I can. Must move back there soon.

[omarthefish]

I only scanned the 3 pages but I didn't notice anyone stating the most obvious (to me anyways) reason people like to criticise the guy. He runs the most expensive seminars I have ever seen out side of SCARS or the like and generally doesn't even teach them. He has created a commercial empire that vastly exceeds what is nessesary to "pay the bills". To my idealistic young eyes, he looks like the ultimate sellout. He advertises next to the past life regressin therapists and way before I learned anything about the arts he was representing he had already established himself in my mind as a new-age spiritual venture capitalist . . . or some thing like that.

To be ABSOLUTELY CLEARL:

I am not criticising his taiji, bagua or any other neigong and even think his book, "Opening the Energy Gates of The Body" is pretty good. But I really cherish these things and am generally revolted by the commodificatino of spirituality. I am not even confused between MA and spirituality but he DOES market his stuff as a spiritual path. His literature and his choice of market really push the taoist angle. In my book that makes him a circus tent preacher, even if he DOES have the goods.

[Doug]

He runs the most expensive seminars I have ever seen out side of SCARS or the like and generally doesn't even teach them. He has created a commercial empire that vastly exceeds what is nessesary to "pay the bills". To my idealistic young eyes, he looks like the ultimate sellout. He advertises next to the past life regressin therapists and way before I learned anything about the arts he was representing he had already established himself in my mind as a new-age spiritual venture capitalist . . . or some thing like that.

Yes, his seminars do seem expensive. Regardless of the cost, I would still like to learn from him in a personal setting, be it a seminar, a class, or a retreat. I don't know about him being a sellout or creating "a commercial empire" of sorts. I think there are a lot bigger names, especially ones that readers here are familiar with, that deserve that finger pointed at them. I don't know why he charges so much, yet since I don't know the reason, I can't consider him "the ultimate sellout" for that alone. I think you have a good point, and it does stick in the minds of all potential students. It keeps me from attending a seminar, but it doesn't keep me from his work.

His literature and his choice of market really push the taoist angle. In my book that makes him a circus tent preacher, even if he DOES have the goods.

I don't think he can avoid addressing Taoism, especially since he teaches Taoism and Taoist methods. In fact, that is his point: to help people improve their lives through healty, safe methods of the Taoist Water Tradition. I don't think he is advocating worshipping Taoist gods or someone/something else that would make him "a circus tent preacher." To be objective here would work against his methods. He certainly isn't going door to door to convert anyone, and he surely isn't telling people that he will cure them with some god's power or spirit.

I think he is offering a service (for lack of a better word) that, unfortunately, is expensive. But I don't find his books and videos any less encouraging or helpful. I have used the techniques in his books and videos to release tension throughout my body, and I have to say that it really works. Heck, just last night in bed, I was trying to dissolve the anxiety of the day away but fell asleep because I got way too comfortable. If I can gain this much from his books and videos (which provide excellent information), I would really like to learn fromt the man personally, particularly since so much is lost in translation from author to book.

Does anyone here know Mr. Frantzis well enough to speak to his martial abilities?

Doug M

[Walter Joyce]

Two quick points.

First, giving someone a hard time for making money at what they do is a very weak argument.

Second, I can speak to Kumar's abilities and I have. His fighting skill is still quite high, and before his car accidents he was flat out scary.

[Doug]

He was in more than one accident? I thought he was in one that left his spine in a mess.

Do you have specifics about this particular injury (by praticular, I mean any details that are not in his books that would not be a violation of personal trust)? What about the second one?

What do you think about when you refer to him as "scary"?

Thanks,

Doug M