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Thread: robert w smith vs chen man ching fight

  1. #76
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    Eventually one gets tired of fighting battles, kickin' but, winning when it involves another losing. It's a young man's game, preoccupation... and there has all ways been much more to IMA than who's best. To MMA? There's nothing else. MMA for health? long life? self development? that's a joke, right? It's always about who's the 'best', technically, martially, and nothing more. Someday the @ss-kicker gets old... and time comes calling...then IMA is still there, real and inside you, and you don't need an 'opponent' to prove its value. MMA when you're old?...a bunch of snapshots on the wall, of what I did back when I was young..

  2. #77
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    Greetings..

    The problem is that we let our egos get in the way of our best interests, we try to protect the time we have invested in our training.. but, if that training doesn't pass muster in the test of true combat, common sense says to adjust the training to fit the desired goals...

    I am adamant about preserving the traditions of IMA, i am certain of its combat usefulness.. i am equally certain that in the face of the top 10% of world-class MMA fighters IMA alone will suffer greatly.. we stand on our "home turfs" and hurl insults and challenges disergarding the potential to share and grow..

    My focus is internal, for many reasons.. but, when i teach fighting i teach techniques based on Taiji principle but borrow from any practical art that can help produce the desired results.. it has been my experience that Taiji can benefit other arts in amazing ways just as they can benefit Taiji.. it is ALL one thing, sequences of movements and techniques designed to provide a valid self-defense.. exclusivity only confines one to limitations within a system..

    Preserve the traditions they are "High Art", but if your intent is self-defense, use all available tools (your oponent will)..

    Be well...

    PS: Stop the Master bashing/worshiping.. its embarrassing..
    TaiChiBob.. "the teacher that is not also a student is neither"

  3. #78
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    Sport isn't the measure of my TCC. Nor is/was it ever the emphasis for myself or my training partners. It's a training method for proofing the basics of what I practice.

    OTOH, all anyone needs to do is search this board for more than enough 'proof' of what the Northern Lights Tai Chi players have accomplished in the ring and on the mat. As much as some would like to ignore or forget the facts, NLTC has represented - no matter what Tim Cartmell, Sevenstar, or anyone else says.

    Nuthin to prove, nuthin to gain, nuthin to lose. HA!
    Tai Chi is

  4. #79
    I am really sick of people claiming that in an actual fight, TC looks just like NHB but is actually using TC PRINCIPLES!!! Or, you would see a single whip/double hand strike/neutralizing/etc. here in the fight video, but it's between frames and hence at the moment we lack the technology to see it.
    Nearly every grandmaster of TC has brought a book out showing applications of TC, as they believe it should be used in an ACTUAL FIGHT! And guess what, they all involve using TC techniques - And they all look nothing like NHB/MMA fighting.
    Look at any style of fighting that has been successful in competition: Boxing - jabs and crosses, BJJ - armbar and RNC, Wrestling - Double leg and single leg. All of these styles use their techniques and prove that they work. TC completely fails to use any of the techniques in it's arsenal, and so Taichiers (and all internal styles) have to claim that any representatives that they have are actually using Neija PRINCIPLES. It really is pathetic, they can't use anything from their style and yet still won't admit that it has serious problems.

    Another way of looking at it:
    Imagine for a moment that BJJ never rose; imagine that it was found that no BJJ stylist could make any BJJ techniques work in NHB. Then one day, a BJJ stylist goes into the cage, and beats his opponent using what is blatantly western boxing. The practicioner however, claims that it was in fact an advanced usage of BJJ PRINCIPLES! And so BJJ does work after all!
    How full of **** would you assume the guy to be? Exactly.

    Ah, the idea of the little old Asian dude who can kick everybodies butt. Hmph. Typical Asian MA pseudo mystical clap-trap. And guess what? It's not true.

    Hey, I mean, I've met some tough old dudes before. But they were just that... tough OLD dudes. They still would get their butt's kicked by tough young dudes who are in much better shape. Face it, people, there is no old little Chinese dude who could win the UFC. And the idea that there is, is complete bullshido!

  5. #80
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    You make absolutely no sense
    Do you understand the difference between princibles and techniques? Wu, Sun, Chen, Yang, and Hao styles of taiji all have different techniques, but are still all taijiquan. Can you tell us why? What you describe isn't pathetic, it's intellegent. You can't be limited to the specific techniqes you're taught. The Gracies wouldn't be who they are today if they'd just copycatted what was taught them. They added a lot of new techniques(and probably re-discovered some old ones) to jujitsu. But it's still jujitsu, because it stays true to the framework of jujitsu. What's really pathetic is idiots like yourself who have some kind of double standard. Have you ever seen taiji and xingyi? Sun style taiji used a follow stepping pattern just like boxers do. Xingyi has contained various boxing like punching combinations for over 100 years. Jabs, hooks, crosses, body shots, knees, elbows, take down defence, throws, thrust kicks, roundhouse kicks, I could point you to a form in CMA that has these in them and is older than any of us. Mr. Ross, our resident San Shou expert, has talked about having(or having read?) Chinese manuals detailing jujitsu like groundfighting dating back to the 1930's long before the Gracies brought groundfighting to the forefront.

  6. #81
    Originally posted by bamboo_ leaf
    yep, for them he is.


    i dont like guns either, you keep missing points and im tiered of typing.

    enjoy the holidays
    Bamboo leaf

    Yes he gets it, but to admit it means his whole argument goes down in flames.

    It time for me to give it a try.

    Unmatchable:

    You give off a belief that No holds barred events shed some kind of real light on true martial arts and by competing in these events your seeking the absolute truth. Everyone else is just fooling himself or herself if they don’t do MMA competitions.




    Unmatchable

    Are we really listening?



    The UFC Octagon (your holy church of truth) doesn’t represent squat in the real world. When a dumpy man from Texas would be the last man standing in a bout with your four best UFC champs. What does this mean to the “truth” of your beloved MMA?

    And it’s all because that dumpy man was packing some lead. (and was highly trained with said object) You can train in your MMA arts all day long and in the end you are in the same boat as us.
    That’s the truth, like it or not, believe it or not However, if you don’t believe it, now who is being a poser?

    In the modern age in which we live in, your tuff guy heroes are pretty small. Colt created man equal, not god and Bowie came before! Get it...yea you do, but you won't admit that. Then you would have to admit your posing like the rest of us. (accoding to you)

    Now whom are you fooling? Not me, nor Bamboo-leaf.

    Have you ever bounced at a bar? Bouncing is neither glamorous nor cool and is extremely dangerous not to mention very stupid.
    Did I mention the pay sucks? Just how old are you anyway?

    To answer some of the age old agruements you put forth.
    When is the last time a rapist thought about raping a woman with her husband around? Ah...maybe next to never......Please don't advicate women should grapple with a rapist....that's crap! No matter what kind of Jujistu training......please....

    According to your view of MMA training, you think he's not going to have a weapon on him, right? Smacks of posing and dancing…. doesn’t it?
    Or
    Are you really planning to grapple with a guy with a knife or worst yet ......a gun? Could you be that stupid. Again sounds like your posing and pretending.


    Logic dictates, if your training in martial arts to defend yourself on the street, wouldn’t it be easier and much more effective to train with a gun or knife? Certainly would be more truthful way of training wouldn’t it? Isn’t the MMA Octagon all about seeking the truth? Are you not shedding light on all of us pretenders out here? So why not forgo the tuff guy MMA stuff for some real small arms and tactical knife training? Because if your not, then you’re posing and pretending just like the rest of us. Right?


    Right?


    Truth hurts…. doesn’t it?

    Chances are when faced with a real threat it's going to be a weapon-wielding nut. Of course most MMA drooling tuff guys on the net envision some drunken goober at a bar drunk giving the eyeball to his girl. Then he proceeds to stand up and call the guy out in the parking lot. Oooh how tuff! Where's the threat? Where's the real danger? What a bunch of crap, your about as in danger as in a backyard high school party brawl.



    I never heard of a mugger using a grappling technique to take your wallet. I've never heard of a rapist using an arm bar to force women into a vehicle. Last time I checked, street thugs don’t conveniently come alone where you can afford to moan and groan horizontally with him in a parking lot. For the record I train with small arms and tactical knife fighting. Yet, I too practice Taijiquan and yea I take it very seriously, I don't look at what others do as somehow fooling themselves. I don't look at others as less macho or cool than I.

    However, since you seem intent on telling me and others on this news group just how weak and meaningless are training is, I thought a shed some light on just how weak your own MMA training is. This is the modern age buddy, you can say what you want, but unless you understand the role of the firearm or knife and just how vulnerable your butt is someone like me, who knows how to use said objects, you’re training is weak! And you are posing and dancing just like the rest of us (supposedly, implied by you of course)

    And as some way of trying to weasel out of the corner you have painted yourself in, please don't try to tell me that you have trained in tactical firearms or knife fighting, because if you had, then we certainly wouldn’t be listening to your chin music about how absolute your MMA arts are.


    Go back to your mat and stew on what I just said.

    And remember

    "Tuff is relative to the last bullet in a 45 cal"


    P.S.

    At least most real Taijiquan teachers teach, “Know your limitation.” I have yet to hear anything like this from the MMA crowd.

  7. #82
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    Smile

    Wow. We've been having his same conversation for six years now.

    Spiral - Great post. We're on the same page, maybe people in Boston make too much sense, Maybe we dink too much...

    "Look at any style of fighting that has been successful in competition: Boxing - jabs and crosses, BJJ - armbar and RNC, Wrestling - Double leg and single leg."

    Boxing - I have two friends who fight and have fought professionally. Not amateur not "I go to club" blah, blah, blah...
    At ny level? They would probablly still beat me. My older KF brothers? Better get a spatula for my old friends.

    Wrestling? -
    I have a good friend who wrestled NCAA. He's dislocated my shoulder twice (Karate days) I also put him down a few times.

    Single and double leg takedowns? Did you watch the olympic and national team trials this year? The leg takedowns worked in about one of ten matches, People didn't even sprawl against the shoot the just bulled forward through the shooter's center.

    "ll of these styles use their techniques and prove that they work."

    In the ring.

    "TC completely fails to use any of the techniques in it's arsenal, and so Taichiers (and all internal styles) have to claim that any representatives that they have are actually using Neija PRINCIPLES. It really is pathetic, they can't use anything from their style and yet still won't admit that it has serious problems.

    The arts weren't designed for the ring. There are many good NeiJa teachers and exponents throughout the country. I'm sorry you've had a bad experience. If you'd like feel free to pm me and I'll find either a competent teacher in your area or post upcoming seminars so that you can learn to learn before you dismiss these arts.

    BTW - The only thing here that is pathetic is you. Especialy if you don't PM me and take advantage of my generous offer.

  8. #83
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    Actually-

    I retract my BTW comment. being how Unmatchable has been fairly polite. He's noy "pathetic" just merely has many questions to which there are no easy answers , nor polite ways to ask.

  9. #84
    I haven't trained mma besides some Muay Thai and judo but alot of mma people on forums say that they don't advocate fighting someone with a knife or a gun unless they themselves have weapons. Or running is the best option. If you look at most fights or sparring matches they end up in a clinch (just look at boxing) and the ground so bjj and standup grappling like Muay Thai or Judo is useful for street.

    It's interesting how you refer to Tim Cartmell when defending Neija but reading his forum he disagrees with your views. He stated that he likes sport fighting and holds mma fighters in high regard.

    Most bouncers work in groups and usually have to deal with drunks who aren't fighting back or resisting full force.

    If a woman is being raped on the ground, ground grappling is the only thing IMO that could save her besides having a knife or a gun on her.

    Tank Abbot trained in boxing and wrestling, he an wasn't untrained brawler like he claimed he was. And Tank Abbot was never a UFC champ he did well in his younger days and early days of the UFC but can't stand a chance against today's athletes (Frank Shamrock requested sport fighters to be called athletes not martial artists).

    I heard from mma guys (on this forum mostly) that they will use any technique that works, they aren't bound by styles and there is no such thing as style in that venue anymore but fighting strategies, and training methods that produce success in the ring.

    If more Neija guys would at least spar with their students and video tape it and it would look incredibly cool and superior to kixkboxing method of combat (or at least different) than we probably wouldn't be having this debate. I mean it's not that hard to do. Find a guy willing to spar you and video tape it than post it on the internet. If you look at the emptyflower clips of bagua fights you will see they aren't very spectatular and they resort to brawling, that's how most of Neija sparring clips that are available on the internet and that I saw look like. WHy alot of people hold Muay Thai and boxing in high regard is because they don't resort to brawling as much, a competend boxer/kickboxer will use straights, jabs, crosses, knees, etc. and not swing their whole body and throw haymakers like an untrained guy.
    Last edited by Unmatchable; 12-27-2003 at 11:57 PM.

  10. #85
    Originally posted by Unmatchable
    I haven't trained mma besides some Muay Thai and judo but alot of mma people on forums say that they don't advocate fighting someone with a knife or a gun unless they themselves have weapons. Or running is the best option. If you look at most fights or sparring matches they end up in a clinch (just look at boxing) and the ground so bjj and standup grappling like Muay Thai or Judo is useful for street.

    It's interesting how you refer to Tim Cartmell when defending Neija but reading his forum he disagrees with your views. He stated that he likes sport fighting and holds mma fighters in high regard.

    Most bouncers work in groups and usually have to deal with drunks who aren't fighting back or resisting full force.

    If a woman is being raped on the ground, ground grappling is the only thing IMO that could save her besides having a knife or a gun on her.

    Tank Abbot trained in boxing and wrestling, he an wasn't untrained brawler like he claimed he was. And Tank Abbot was never a UFC champ he did well in his younger days and early days of the UFC but can't stand a chance against today's athletes (Frank Shamrock requested sport fighters to be called athletes not martial artists).

    I heard from mma guys (on this forum mostly) that they will use any technique that works, they aren't bound by styles and there is no such thing as style in that venue anymore but fighting strategies, and training methods that produce success in the ring.

    If more Neija guys would at least spar with their students and video tape it and it would look incredibly cool and superior to kixkboxing method of combat (or at least different) than we probably wouldn't be having this debate. I mean it's not that hard to do. Find a guy willing to spar you and video tape it than post it on the internet. If you look at the emptyflower clips of bagua fights you will see they aren't very spectatular and they resort to brawling, that's how most of Neija sparring clips that are available on the internet and that I saw look like. WHy alot of people hold Muay Thai and boxing in high regard is because they don't resort to brawling as much, a competend boxer/kickboxer will use straights, jabs, crosses, knees, etc. and not swing their whole body and throw haymakers like an untrained guy.
    Nice side step


    Again your still obsessed with the “My hand to Hand combat style is better than yours stuff!”

    What crap!

    Is this really getting you anywhere?

    Sorry to disappoint you, but in most tactical arms clubs, hand to hand is all seen as just a secondary back up system. In fact in most combat arms clubs your MMA arts scene is laughed at, because your failure to get up and run. I’ve never heard from any of the UFC crowd that running away was the right thing to do.
    Its all been to ground and pound.....tuff guy stuff.

    If your running away from bullets and knives, what makes you any different than the rest of us?

    How does it feel to be one of us IMA pretenders?

    You can come here at attempt to set us straight on what you feel (notice I don’t use the word "know") is the real way of doing things. However, know that someone trained in modern day weapons is looking at you the same way your looking at us. They are asking the same question about your MMA that you ask us about IMA.

    For example:

    Show us an example where a man grappled his way out of a gunfight?

    Show us an example where a MMA defeated an experienced knife fighter.

    Since these have happened only in extreme and rare cases, I guess according to your logic MMA arts are no good too.

    Right?


    “Denial is to you as Martial is to art “

    Don’t let this become your motto

  11. #86
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    Thought about mentioning this before, but completely forgot... A little off topic, but I talked to my uncle who was an ex-army and special forces guy(long time ago). He talked to me a bit about his hand to hand combat training back in the day. Basically he learned 5 basic Karate techniques that have done well for him in every altercation he's ever had. Basically in a real life fight you don't need to know alot. Being a really great fighter doesn't mean a whole lot anymore. You can get by pretty well just being average.

    Unmatchable, sorry I called you pathetic... I think I've said a lot of the same things you did to someone at some point too

  12. #87
    Here is an article I found by Matt Thornton(smartmonkey) it talks about weapons and such:
    The problems with a "streetfighter" mindset.
    I'd like to talk about the distinctions between an athletic training model and mindset, and a "streetfighting" model and mindset. And I do believe it's important for a number of reasons to make a certain distinction between the two. That distinction, and the reasons why it's a healthy one to make, are what this thread is about.

    We need to be very, very clear as to the content of what's being discussed. When we began talking about differences in approaches to anything there is potential for people to take such discussions on a personal level, due to lack of understanding regarding the conversation, or a previous personal agenda, etc. Nothing in the below written posts is personal, period.

    If you DON'T find the distinctions to be true in your own case then there is obviously no reason to view them as personal. And if you DO find that some of the ideas may hit close to home, then it's also a very positive thing, and a chance for learning. So in either case the ideas presented below should be seen as the laying out of a roadmap that is intended to bring positive results into peoples lives. But in either case nothing being written or spoken is about a specific persona, on any level.

    Secondly, discussing different mentalities in training and life is never an either or proposition. Although that may seem obvious, many people have trouble with that concept so it's always best to lay it out front of the discussion.

    When it comes to "street" training, combatives, or RBSD, there seems to exist a fallacious argument. The old street" versus "sport" training argument. The false premise being it must be one or the other, that the training methods are mutually exclusive.

    This is not only an incorrect assumption; it also goes against the long and colorful history of American "combatives" or "self defense" Instructors, of previous eras. A brief look into their backgrounds, and minimum amount of research will tell the tale.

    In addition, anyone with even a minor bit of information about SBGi knows we offer many RBSD programs. Including programs for Law Enforcement, and including all possible "foul" tactics, and their functional counters. So again, to suggest anything written below paints ALL Instructors who teach RBSD in a particular light is simply not logical, nor factual.

    Finally, the politics and gossip of Martial Arts holds zero interest for me, or I think anyone in our Organization. But if you do have any personal issues, feel free to contact me direct, or in person. It's the approach I take, and the one that is always the most appropriate. As for discussions online, they should always be kept to training methods and ideas.

    Now there are two separate issues with reality based self defense.

    The first is functionality. And as people will be theoretically relying on the information and training offered to save their life, or the lives of others, this point is critical. There are a ton myths offered when it comes to self defense and 'streetfighting'. Some of these seem harmless, and may be when it's simply two adolescents or grown men getting together to click sticks, or memorize patterns.

    But when it comes to people who may actually need to use such information, police officers, etc, in order to be able to go home to their family safely at night, such misinformation, and perpetuation of myths can be deadly. So functionality in what is being taught is critical in RBSD.

    When it comes to weapons this was addressed to a degree in the previous posts here:
    Regards the stick fighting, to actually be able to fight with a stick one would have to start by throwing out the majority of the "Kali" that is typically taught, and almost all the 'drills', which are little more then two man Kata which teach one what not to do. And even then, left with functional, powerful strikes, and realistic methods of defense, the ground will still often occur, and ko's will not always be easy.

    As far as defending against a knife, again it can be, and is done. But one would have to throw out the majority of the "Kali" empty hand tapi-tapi type drills taught, and go to a control position such as offered by Karl in the STAB program, Jerry with the RedZone, and Burton's two on 1 baseball grip variations.

    Coincidentally I had a conversation yesterday regarding a police officer who had been stabbed multiple times by large mental patient on a call a few days ago. Apparently the officer is ok, but he was surprised to relate that he didn't realize his opponent even had a knife until he had been stuck several times, because to him at that time it felt like 'a minor strike'. That seems to be fairly typical. It also has to be why they attack the way they do with a shank in prison. . .having realized this reality a LONG time ago.

    On a positive note that department will now be working STAB with Paul Sharp.

    In Jerry Wetzel's Red Zone video there is a great section where Jerry's wife, who is a practicing MD, goes into detail regarding the bodies actual process for going into shock. And much of the mythology of knife fighting is cleared up there as well. I'd highly recommend that video for anyone serious on this subject.

    Another good example that clearly demonstrates these ideas are written in our street vs sports section at the website: www.straightblastgym.com

    "One happened about a year ago, I'm walking up to a father/son domestic when the son steps out onto the porch where dad is sitting on the stoop and hits dad full tilt with a golf club dead on in the throat. Dad does a weird squeal and jumps up, pulls knife and goes after the kid. What was that acronym about throat-eyes-solar plexus-nads-knees?

    Somebody should have told those guy's when you get hit in a pressure point you go down no questions asked...."

    So it's obvious that there is a lot of mythology when it comes to RBSD, particularly (but not exclusive to) the JKD family. And although it may seem harmless enough, when it comes to serious issues, such as Law Enforcement or personal self defense, it's anything but harmless.
    However, there is another, deeper, issue I would like to talk about that I feel is even more important when it comes to this subject.

    The most important point in my opinion is the mind set that exists behind the eyes of someone who finds themselves attracted to the entire "streetfighting", biting, killer instinct, paradigm that exists, and is marketed to with some instructors. If one looks honestly at it then it becomes pretty obvious that it is really about fear, paranoia, insecurity, and personal guilt.

    What does that statement mean?

    It's very simple. If you market yourself, your school, or your products as a "streetfighting" system, then a certain group of individuals will find themselves drawn to that product for a variety of reasons. Many of which are unhealthy.

    Does that sentence mean all Instructors who teach such things are filled with fear, paranoia, insecurity, and personal guilt!?

    Of course not.

    Does that mean that ALL RBSD schools cater to such cliental?

    Of course not.

    Does that mean everyone drawn to such marketing is similar to the people described above?

    Of course not.

    Let me insert a section of an article by me that was written for realfighting.com on this very subject that I believe explains what the above sentence means very clearly.

    (Psychological fear is a completely different animal, and sadly it is incredibly common within the "combatives", or modern self-defense crowds. Psychological fear is actually a form of paranoia, and it's created by one's internal fears of inadequacy on either a physical, emotional, or mental level. When a male (in particular) thinks himself to be inadequate there is a strong feeling of sadness and anger. And just as aggression is the other side of the same coin as fear, sadness is the other side of the same coin as anger. If one doesn't address this internal sadness in a very real way then it will often manifest itself in the form of anger. I think as males we are more prone to adopt and embrace the anger, at least within our public persona, as opposed to the sadness, because for some misguided reason we have been taught that anger is more "masculine" then it's equal, sadness.

  13. #88
    functional nature, and mandatory testing of all our tactics, techniques, and delivery systems. It's not open to speculation.
    So what's the point of bringing this subject up?

    Simple, because I have found that the same types of people who (may often) be drawn to more violent, "streetfighting" type images, will actually make great leaps in personal development and well being when they switch to a healthier athletic format, and simply let go of the whole 'killer' instinct, bite, kill 'image/mentality'.

    I remember a seminar Years ago where Rickson Gracie was asked this exact same thing about eye gouging and the "street". He related that although he had to fight in the street and defend himself many times as he was growing up in Brazil, that even thinking about gouging peoples eyeballs, or biting them, is not something he would ever want to start doing. The thought itself is unhealthy to a human, and Jiu-Jitsu is supposed to be about health and well being.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I am also sometimes asked by RBSD Instructors why we don't place a heavy emphasis on advertising the "streetfighting", or RBSD aspects of what we do, if in deed we do train this way at our Gyms. (The fact that we do train for self defense becomes self evident to anyone who ever trains at any of our Gyms) . The answer is we do market that way when it's appropriate, but we choose not to emphasize that aspect to the public at large for the reasons listed in this article.

    The athletic mentality, method, and mindset, is HEALTHIER for all human beings. And it's also more functional on a very practical level. It's healthier for adults, it's better for children, and it's just better for human beings in general.

    Especially in terms of mental well being.

    And this is why we steer people into that area whenever possible.

    For those interested here is the complete article on Awareness and self defense that was written for www.realfighting.com
    Awareness Versus Paranoia, the Realities of Self Defense Training

    By Matt Thornton

    There seems to be an ongoing debate in Martial Arts circles these that can be summed up in the sentence, "street" versus "sport" training. The false premise being it must be one or the other, that the training methods are mutually exclusive. This is not only an incorrect assumption; it also goes against the long and colorful history of American "combatives" or "self defense" Instructors, of previous eras. A brief look into their backgrounds, and minimum amount of research will tell the tale.

    So setting aside that false argument for a moment, I would like to address the most important topic related to real world self-defense, the topic of awareness.

    When I teach people specific topics related to civilian "self-defense" I generally base my teaching on a simple progression I call the ABC's of self-defense. The A stands for awareness, and is by far the most important aspect of the teaching. Awareness as I am defining it is the broad based clear realization of your environment, and surroundings, as it is brought to your body by all five senses. Knowing where you are, and what's around you at all times. At first glance this seems like a very simple idea, but it is in reality the most difficult aspect of self-defense training, with the 'pre' physical confrontation (what many are now calling the "psychological" aspects of self defense), and the actual physical skills of fighting, being a very distant second in importance.

    "What makes this needed awareness difficult is first and foremost our own minds."

    We are often proud, so we don't bother checking with local authorities regarding our geography. Or worse yet, we feel aggressive, which is a form of fear, and purposely place ourselves in situations we shouldn't be. We place ourselves in situations where we know we may receive an invitation to hurt another human being. This subconscious motive is common with those that like to "bar" fight. Or the half-wit that upon first receiving his concealed weapons permits begins driving through tough neighborhoods within his city. And it's worth noting that those, which find themselves attracted to such situations, or people, are usually the weakest members of human society. Both intellectually, emotionally, and to a degree, physically.

    "We often feel paranoid, so we create an atmosphere around us that attracts predators, and fellow victims of paranoia seeking to measure their fear, and misery against ours. "

    We are most often distracted with random and uncontrollable thoughts of our relationships, jobs, finances, and our own personal judgments regarding how we feel things should be, or not be, and this makes us oblivious to so much of what is going on around us within our field of awareness.

    All of these states, pride, aggression, paranoia, and confusion, create a mind that is unable to read its surroundings well, and invites dangerous situations that could otherwise be avoided. They narrow the field of awareness to a great extent. So our first goal in cultivating this real world awareness should be to broaden that field, to expand it, and allow us to fully process all that occurs within our vicinity. To do this we need to attack each of these states step by step.

    Let's start with pride. My job is self-defense, martial arts, and combat athletics; it's all I do for a living. This affords me more time then the average person has when it comes to daily training. It keeps my body in reasonable athletic shape, beyond what most 'normal' people have within our society. And it has given me a certain amount of skill when it comes to fighting within all ranges. In the course of working towards my black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu I have wrestled thousands of opponents to submission. Some bigger and stronger, some faster, some younger, over and over. This is nothing special, it's simply the process required to gain real world skill in any delivery system of combat.
    Having said all that there are still many places I will not wander, unless I had to, within this world. One clear example is South Africa. I have visited South Africa on many occasions. And depending on the statistics you read, Johannesburg may be the homicide capitol of the world. For those that think they come from a tough neighborhood in the USA, an evening stroll through a South African township may quickly bring that measurement into perspective. Before my last trip I was approached by a modern "combatives", or self-defense Instructor within the USA who is quite well known. He was offering what he felt was helpful advice by telling me what firearms I should carry while there, what clipit knife I should have on my person, and relating to me all the latest violent crime, and car jacking stats from the local.

    Then he asked "what do you carry while you are there?" When I informed him I usually don't carry any form of weapons, be they blades or guns, he looked quite shocked. "How can you be in a place like that and not be armed man?" My answer was, I am with people who know where to go. It's as simple as that. I have a 140lb Portuguese driver named Nuno, who is quite good at keeping us out of places we shouldn't be, when we shouldn't be there. He grew up in Joberg, and knows the area very well.

    The worst thing I could possibly do is believe that because of my job, and the amount of weapons I am carrying on my person, I could wander the city as I see fit. That would be pride, and or stupidity, of the worse kind. And even if I were to survive such an encounter, and in the process wind up hurting people, what have I really gained?

    "Know where you are at, and when you should be there, and if you are not from there, find someone who is, and listen to them!"

    Aggression is another state all together. The first thing I try to explain is that aggression when it is unwarranted is simply another manifestation of fear. We need to understand that aggression and fear are one and the same quality. Two ends of the same stick, or two halves of the same coin, if you will. They are not only the same, they are inseparable. When it's aggression that is manifesting itself in non-appropriate ways, such as the examples above of the "bar" fighter, or the concealed weapons holder who puts himself in dangerous situations, then it's actually the fear that is being manifest. So we need to address that issue, the big issue of martial arts as I see it, the issue of fear.

    I am asked a lot about fear when I teach seminars. And the subject of fear is an important one for anyone interested in pursuing martial arts, or self-defense. The first thing we need to do when we talk about fear is separate what I call "psychological" fear, which is self created, and what I call "body" fear, which is dependent on external circumstances.

    Body fear is the body's own natural response to danger. It's normal, healthy, and needed. The simple example is the two men in the military told to charge a machine gun nest. One charges the nest, and is branded a hero. One refuses to move, and is branded a coward. However, the important point is that physically both men felt the exact same thing. This feeling the body gets is the natural response to a very real physical threat, and it should be viewed as an aid, and not a foe.
    Another clear example of body fear comes in the form of what people often call 'intuition'. A term I prefer is "gut" instinct. This is a great term because it aptly describes the body's actual feeling when danger comes close…a stirring in the gut, (stomach area). The work of Gavin De Becker brings this information to light in a very accessible way. The nanny that gives the mother an "uneasy" feeling.

  14. #89
    Originally posted by Unmatchable
    You asked when has a mma guy defended himself against a knife, gun, etc. So I'll ask you when has a IMA guy defended himself against a gun, knife, etc. (not stories of old masters which were made up bvut actually caught on video and in modern times).

    Recently, a deranged Japanese man armed with a knife went on a rampage cutting and slashing innocent bystanders for no apparent reason. One of his victims was a professional K-1 fighter, Genki Sudo. Genki Sudo fled the attack instead of confronting his attacker.

    Archangel smacked the correct on this thread:
    http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...018#post430018


    Again, another nice side step



    Are you not forgetting an all-important detail.

    Others and I never trashed MMA. You started it by being sly and coy with your assumptions on IMA.

    By asking me to name an IMA’er who had defended himself against a knife attack, again you hope to play the “my art is superior than your art” bag of tricks/



    GIVE IT UP!!!


    I’m just showing you MMA art's are no different from any other hand-to-hand form including IMA's to a gun or any other real weapon carrying opponent!

    AND YOU CAN”T HANDLE IT!!!

    You’re just like us (IMA guys) in the end.

    AGAIN, YOU CAN”T HANDLE IT! Your super huge ego post smacks of it!

    Sucks doesn’t it?

    IT SUCKS to realize you have been posing like the rest of us.


    You wrote:

    You asked when has a mma guy defended himself against a knife, gun, etc. So I'll ask you when has a IMA guy defended himself against a gun, knife, etc. (not stories of old masters which were made up bvut actually caught on video and in modern times).

    Recently, a deranged Japanese man armed with a knife went on a rampage cutting and slashing innocent bystanders for no apparent reason. One of his victims was a professional K-1 fighter, Genki Sudo. Genki Sudo fled the attack instead of confronting his attacker.

    End quote:


    And the guy was deranged? Do you have any idea how fast a person who knows what he/she is doing with a knife or gun can kill you?

    Blink....... Your dead!

    To grapple with him'her is to hasten to your death!

    Yea that professional K-1 fighter, Genki Sudo ran like everyone else, He's a professional athlete, not a trained professional. What does that tell you!

    Of course your still saying in the back of your mind he’s not Ken Shamrock. Shamrock would have taken the guy out with a figure four-leg lock!

    Why else would you ask me to name a IMA guy that defended against a knife attack?


    Against an experienced tactical knife fighter Ken Shamrock wouldn’t stand much of a chance without picking up a weapon himself. Of course he’s not really shoot fighting at this point is he now?

    Nor would we be doing an IMA (unless someone was trained in a classical weapon like a staff, sword or knife)

    But that's not really in a MMA bag of tricks is it, to play with shinny toys?

    Na.....

    Dare I say it, “Ken Shamrock would be in a smaller boat than the rest of us IMA'ers

    How preposterous!!!!!!!!


    Are you getting it now?

    Will you ever get it!

    Yea you got it way back when Bammbo leaf laid it out for you. Your just unwilling to let go with your macho notion that MMA's is better than IMA's. When it really makes no difference at all.

    Would it crush your ego and make you change your name?

    To guys who train with guns and real weapons MMA is just a bunch of posing!

    Period!!! End of story!!!!!

    Understand this and take this into scope with what your implying about IMA's!!!!

    But I said all this before (several times now) and yet you try to deny it or are not willing to accept the fact someone out there is saying the same crap about your beloved MMA's and has the goods to back it up.



    I'm done

    Finished!!!

    I've shown your arguments to be just what they are (and every other MMA wanna be’s view on traditional martial arts including IMA's)

    Bunch of POWER BOASTING


    NOTHING BUT……………………..

    UNADULTERATED PURE POWER BOASTING!!!!!


    LOL


    LOL



    LOL...............
    Last edited by GroungJing; 12-28-2003 at 05:30 PM.

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    111
    name an IMA’er who had defended himself against a knife attack,

    Actually, Erle Montaigue, on not one, but three different ocassions. He doesn't brag about it but if you e-mail him politely he might tell you the circumstances in detail. Erle trains knife fighting and also trains how to deal with knife attacks, I believe his direct experience lends credence to his methods.

    I would like to add that IMA'ers shouldn't be discouraged when grapplers enter an IMA forum and begin asking for the latest IMA victory of note and stating without evidence or proof then IMA is ineffective. You can believe that Grapplers have the same doubts and arguments/debates and discussions regarding their own art also. Only this is usually about effectiveness outside the ring. After reading through some JJ forums I am convinced that they are no different to any of us. We all want to know that out art is effective in the street and not just in our heads. The only way to ensure this is to remain humble and train for every eventuality.
    Last edited by Syd; 12-28-2003 at 09:13 PM.
    I am Jacks Dan Tien

    "The last sound he made was like a sparrow whistling"

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