Chin Na question regarding styles

[PHILBERT]

I was thinking earlier while reading my Shaolin Chin Na book and came to ponder about applications of it. In the book it says how it can be easily adapted to any style of martial art, so I was curious, is Chin Na the same for every style, but follow up techniques different? If I were to say buy the 72 Joint Locks of Eagle Claw Chin Na Part 1 and 72 Joint Locks of Eagle Claw Chin Na Part 2, would they teach the same techniques as found in the Shaolin Chin Na videos Part 1 and Part 2?

I realize that follow up techniques would differ for each art, but was just seeing if the techniques and applications would be the same, but with different follow ups.

I also ponder this because Dr Yang, Jwing-Ming has a book on Taiji Chin Na and did not know if they were different joint locks.

[Thundermudd]

How many ways can the joints be bent? This is how many different chin na there can be. Bagua has them and they work well.

[PHILBERT]

What I am asking is there only 72 total joint locks on the body and that every system that incorporates Chin Na only uses those 72? Or are there say...108, and some only use those 72? Or some only use 24? 48? etc.

[Chang Style Novice]

So wait - you mean chin na has nothing to do with that bony mass at the bottom of your face?

[SanSoo Student]

I think that the basic locks will be the same, and they might show you different approaches to the same type of hold in eagle's claw. I'm not an expert in chin na or eagle claw. But IMO, there is only so much chin na you can use before it becomes too fancy, like in that book you have (I have it too), there were some finger locks where you use two hands on one hand, that are not practical to use in a real fight, unless your a bigger guy vs. a smaller opponent.

I mean Chin Na will only get you so far, before you realize, "I have to hit that MoFo. first before I lock him out."

[Thundermudd]

Yes,
Chin Na to lead their body and them WHAM!

[anton]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
So wait - you mean chin na has nothing to do with that bony mass at the bottom of your face?

You mean the Chin?.....










Naahh!

[GLW]

You're making too much of the numbers.

There are basic principle for Chin Na (Qinna). For example, one principle for one type of Qinna is to move a joint into a stress region of extension and then stress it more.

Taking this concept, you then take a particular joint and ask "What is the stress region for the joint? What do I have to do to put that joint into a stress region? What do I have to do to apply more stress once I am there? And finally....HOW do I get to the starting point and follow through from a dynamic situation"

Once you have those questions, the answers may differ in the how for the setup and the what for the follow through depending on the style but the basic concept and mechanics for that type of Qinna will be the same.

There are other types of Qinna - for example stressing the muscle or ligaments...and so on.

So, my point is, if you grasp the concept and then grasp the flow of what your body does and how your style (personal or otherwise) workd, you will end up with any number of Qinna techniques but they all break down into basics.

The codified ones are simply codified for basics and understanding the concepts.

[BentMonk]

I have Dr. Ming's book also. GLW has performed Chin Na's Dim Mak (Prison Sex ReMix) on the correct. On pages 26 & 27 Dr. Ming discusses the "construction of Chin Na techniques". After a break down of the basic principles of Chin Na Dr. Ming says, "By folllowing and keeping in mind all of these guidelines the experienced martial artist can construct his own Chin Na techniques. But only those martial artists who are compotent in theory and practice should try to make up their own techniques. Innovation has always been a vital part of Wu Su, but it can only come about through a mastery of basic skills and knowledge." I take that to mean that as one gains more and more understanding of the main Chin Na principles, you will see more opportunities for more techniques when you need to. I have always thought Chin Na to be the most adaptable CMA. The same principles Dr. Ming spoke of were used to preserve the effectiveness of the techniques my instructor changed for me. Chin Na is also a way to focus on the foundation of techniques, and move away from the situationally dependent techniques within some traditional forms. With the primary focus on expressing all of the principle foundations in every Chin Na technique, the number that could be created would be limited only by the imagination of the martial artist.

[Tak]

Originally posted by SanSoo Student
But IMO, there is only so much chin na you can use before it becomes too fancy, like in that book you have (I have it too), there were some finger locks where you use two hands on one hand, that are not practical to use in a real fight, unless your a bigger guy vs. a smaller opponent.

This is true. There are finger locks, ear locks, etc. Other locks require extremely complicated setups. While perhaps not practical in many situations, these locks can help you understand some principle that will help improve the bread-and-butter locks.

The two-hand-on-one locks are intended to quickly put the opponent in enough pain that he can't (or doesn't want to) do anything with the other hand except tap out.

[norther practitioner]

The two-hand-on-one locks are intended to quickly put the opponent in enough pain that he can't (or doesn't want to) do anything with the other hand except tap out.

or catch themselves as they hit the pavement....

chin na into throws is fun...

[PHILBERT]

GLW, BentMonk and Tak all pretty much answered me question on the dime. Thanks guys.

[Oso]

afaik, YJM standardized for his curriculum. I think what you see in his material is a great representation of chin na techniques.

the important part is to understand the basic theory behind dividing the muscle and misplacing the bone. then, I feel, you can forget about 'technique' and just fugg up whatever you have in your hand.

fwiw, I've seen at least 6 methods of applying the 'hand wrap' on the wrist each with it's own opinion on the best angle of the elbow etc, etc...it's still basically just applying torque on the joint in 2 different planes...

chin na into throws is fun...

and striking into a chin na into a throw is more fun

[norther practitioner]

and striking into a chin na into a throw is more fun

I don't got dat down like that yet though....

I'll be sure to tell ya when I do.

[Oso]

close >> strike >> grab >> wrench >> throw >> strike sum mo