Chin Na question regarding styles

[norther practitioner]

page 97? Is that the one on Taiji Legacy with all the pictures?

YEP

[Oso]

close >> strike >> grab >> wrench >> throw >> strike sum mo

[GLW]

I think Kung Lek may have misunderstood my point...

When you are learning Qinna, you REQUIRE a cooperative partner. You are trying to get a feel and flow and understand the mechanics. Trying to get all of these things while dealing with resistance and danger is nearly impossible.

It seems best to have an instructor but to also have two students work together. The instructor shows how it is done. The sutdents experiment.

This also tends to make people aware of what CAN happen. You take turns so if you go crazy, it is the other guy's turn next...sort of a self governing proposition.

Putting a senior person with a junior CAN help both but the senior has to surrender some of their ego and let the junior do things. This often doesn't happen unless the instructor is good about laying the groundwork.

But, at some point in time, you have to switch to adding resistance and learning how to deal with it. Then you have to add speed but no power (after all, doing it fast with power means you go through a lot of practice partners). While doing this, you learn the counters and the flow. Then you add in flow, speed, power into a set pattern (safety first) with more advanced people. Finally, you go freestyle full out...but this is only for advanced people since the risk of injury is too high if the person does not know how to counter....

[David Jamieson]

GLW-

Nope, i understood what you said.

I was merely trying to point out that:

But, at some point in time, you have to switch to adding resistance and learning how to deal with it. Then you have to add speed but no power (after all, doing it fast with power means you go through a lot of practice partners). While doing this, you learn the counters and the flow. Then you add in flow, speed, power into a set pattern (safety first) with more advanced people. Finally, you go freestyle full out...but this is only for advanced people since the risk of injury is too high if the person does not know how to counter....

in reference to this idea put forth, There are 1 in 1000 people who actually train at this level were they can actually pull off even a simple Chin Na technique on a resisting opponent.

I would venture to say that those who would benefit the most from extensive Chin Na training would be leos and in fact many leos have some form of lock and restrain method taught to them. Their "opponents" are more often than not resistant, but generally, if they are too resistant, the Leos will "soften" them up a bit with a good sound clubbing opr even shoot the person if they are too active in their resistance.

High level Chin Na technique is difficult to achieve. And yes, I agree that in the process of learning the best method to ensure understanding is slow and steady and gradual growth and development.

cheers

[Oso]

"the easiest person to put a lock on is a martial artist"

maybe if they are a beginner. i'd have to say this is a pretty broad observation. the first stage of chin na training SHOULD be basic dissolves. then, as new techs are taught, the counters to them should also be taught. if someone is not learning the defensive side of chin na then the offensive side isn't going to do them any good.

while you may train chin na techniques w/o emptying to learn them the next phase is to add the empty into the equation against . it IS rediculous to think that you are just going to chin na someone w/o at least distracting them from what you are trying to do to them. this strategy holds true in the sport venues as well. I would have thought this would almost have gone without saying.

Every thing has to be set up against a fully resisting opponent.

Chin na is a more complicated skill set then punching or kicking.
So, it takes more time to get good at it. But that doesn't mean you can't get good enough at it to apply it to a fully resisting opponent.

this may sound like grandstanding or a 'look at me' statement but...while not a LEO, and I won't ever compare my experiences to one, I did work as a bouncer for 7 years between 1990-1997 and dealt with more than a couple of fully resisting people during that time. I pride myself on being able to say that in 7 years I only threw punches twice. All the other physical situation were dealt with by way of chin na or takedowns to chin na on the ground.

[Shaolinlueb]

i started training the basics in chin na on and off over a year ago. i havent really gone beyond the basics cause i haven't done a lot of them. but looking through the book (i also have the shaolin chin an with the pink cover. i think its great.) and I also have "The secrets of eagle claw kung fu" I have to say it seems all chin na is the same and different styles jsut teach and get into them differently. now that might have ben said i only skimmed through the previous 3 pages of discuission on this.

[Meat Shake]

Oso forgot to mention his 300,000 volt stun gun...
and the 6 midgets with billy clubs he employs... "The brooklyn knee crushers"...

[Oso]

MS, no stun gun but I did have 6 guys on my crew, correction 5 guys and a girl. woulda hired a midget. they cold have been good at spotting underage drinkers. We were a strange bar...Frat boys on Thurdays and rednecks on Fri/Sat. occasionaly we'd get a hippy band in. Hippies are the worst...they keep their anger supressed all the time then get drunk and explode.