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Thread: What do/don't you consider as being "Shaolin" ?

  1. #121
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    bl, dudette
    I specifically used the terms master and instructor to emphasize the difference between the two. Shaolin's 3 treasures are available for all that wish to drink of its plentiful cup. enjoy...
    Tony Jacobs

    ng doh luk mun fa kin kwan

    "...Therefore the truly great man dwells on what is real
    and not what is on the surface,
    On the fruit and not the flower.
    Therefore accept the one and reject the other. "

    World Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kung Fu Association
    Southern Shaolin Kung Fu Global Discussion Forum

  2. #122
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    cheers ..I do

  3. #123
    Join Date
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    the Temple
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    cheers
    Tony Jacobs

    ng doh luk mun fa kin kwan

    "...Therefore the truly great man dwells on what is real
    and not what is on the surface,
    On the fruit and not the flower.
    Therefore accept the one and reject the other. "

    World Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kung Fu Association
    Southern Shaolin Kung Fu Global Discussion Forum

  4. #124
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    Canada!
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    In regards to it "all being shaolin".

    This is true.

    Even Shaolin Do is shaolin.

    Sil Lum, Siu Lahm, Choy, Mok, Hua, Chen, Yang, Li, all the Gars all the Pais, Chuan Fa, Kempo, Kun Tao KunTaw,Te, Karate, Shorinryu, Isshinryu , Gojuryu, Shaolin, blah blah blah blah BLAH! It all can be said to belong to shaolin simply because at some point in time and in some point within the curriculum, Shaolin has effected and affected it's teachers and practitioners.

    Ergo, it is all Shaolin.

    The Shaolin temple of today teaches forms and sets that do not resemble even in a far away sense the forms of other styles which claim to be shaolin.

    Man, we really have to put this crap behind us and move on.

    Thé can say what he wants.
    I personally know kungfu sifus who have rerwritten their own histories several times. who gives a crap LOL.

    All that stuff is a bunch of mumbo jumbo when held to the light of where Kungfu is and where as has been mentioned, the 3 treasures are.

    They are not in a school waiting for you to come and get them. They are in your hearts and minds waiting for you to dig them out through the determination and diligent practice it is going to take from you to wash away all your preconceptions and stupid little stories and perspectives that we each hang onto in the name of sacred belief that will give us direction and meaning in our otherwise meaningless lives.

    reflect on that for a minute. reflect on this simple thing:

    If you were to dissappear from this world tomorrow, ultimately, what would the effect of that be?

    If you were to stay for another 50 years on this world, what will you contribute to it?

    100 years?

    100 seconds?

    What are you worth right now to the world we are in?
    What is your potential value?
    Will your potential manifest?
    Can you help your potential manifest through working towards the attainment of Kungfu in your life?

    anyway, I gotta go now, just some carrots to chomp on for some of the asses here lol.
    Last edited by Kung Lek; 04-02-2004 at 09:06 AM.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  5. #125
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    The three treasures

    Anyone who is Buddhist has taken refuge in the three treasures. There's a lot of us. As for practicing Shaolin martial arts, part of the reason is to protect the three treasures. That is the reason for the existence of Shaolin monks, or at least the warrior ones. Now does this mean you have to be Buddhist to practice authentic Shaolin? No, not really. That's where it can get a bit confusing, in a Zen way.

    It's a tricky issue - what is real and what isn't - not just for Shaolin martial arts, but for Zen in general. Zen is all about penetrating delusion. So if Shaolin is Zen, of course you're going to have these problems. To quote an unlikely source here "Do people thing that once they say: "We are Belivers", the will be left alone and not be tested? ~The Spider, The Koran.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  6. #126
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    Can you even call yourself Shaolin if you've not done a long sit?

    I'm posting this here because this thread popped when I searched Rinzai.

    All-in’ Buddhist practice combines meditation and martial arts
    Athletic types are drawn to Rinzai Zen training's physical demands. They stay for the Japanese flute.

    Ginny Jiko Whitelaw Roshi, right, leads a class at Chosei Zen dojo in Spring Green, Wisconsin, in 2019. Photo courtesy of Anita Taylor/Chosei Zen
    June 8, 2021
    By Liz Kineke

    (RNS) — In all Zen traditions, meditation is the backbone of the practice. Students sit with a tall spine, hands loosely interlocked and eyes half-closed. At Chosei Zen in Madison, Wisconsin, though, new students are never quite prepared for the rigor of Rinzai Zen, which asks participants to remain motionless for up to 45 minutes — twice a day.

    “It was so challenging, exhausting and painful,” said Kristi Crymes, 47, a family doctor in Springfield, Missouri, who attended an intensive retreat at the dojo in October 2017.

    “And yet, it was the physical part of it that made me see — this is what my mindfulness practice has been missing all along,” Crymes said.

    Rinzai’s embodied, physically intense form of spiritual training goes counter to what many people expect from Zen practice. “It’s not mystical. It’s manual labor,” said the abbot of Chosei Zen, Gordon Hakuun Greene Roshi. “We’re trying to soak this stuff into our bones. If I want to be effective in the world, if I want to bring compassion, if I want to take care of people, I’ve got to get this into my bones so that it’s available at all times and under all circumstances.”


    Chosei Zen dojo in Madison, Wisconsin. Photo courtesy of Anita Taylor/Chosei Zen

    Abbot Emeritus Kenneth Setsuzan Kushner Roshi calls Rinzai’s all-in approach “the highest form of spiritual training in Zen.” In Japanese, the word for its rigor is “shugyo,” sometimes translated by teachers as “deep spiritual forging” — as in fashioning metal.

    “When people first start sitting, they really struggle,” said Ginny Jiko Whitelaw Roshi. (“Roshi,” appended to a person’s name, identifies them as a Zen master.)

    But the power of the stillness informs practitioners’ habits, on and off the cushion. “It’s putting a clutch between impulse and action,” said Whitelaw. “The thought can arrive, but it doesn’t get acted upon. The student gains the freedom to act with intention, “rather than just a knee-jerk response to whatever impulse is arising.”

    Also in play are posture and breath — the Japanese call it “hara,” loosely translated as abdominal breathing. “There is no Zen without hara,” the saying goes in this tradition, as the technique is considered a necessary tool for the cultivation of “samadhi,” a state of relaxed concentration that helps to generate “ki” or life force.

    What gives this lineage its signature stamp from others in the Rinzai tradition is the integration of the martial arts and the fine arts — self-defense skills, archery and Japanese bamboo flute. Martial arts build up ki, while training in the fine arts refines it and meditation grounds it.

    Kushner, Greene and Whitelaw, all Zen masters, were students of Japanese American Tenshin Tanouye Rotaishi, an accomplished martial artist and calligrapher who co-founded the lineage — a line of Buddhist teachers who pass down a given practice — with his teacher Omori Sogen Rotaishi.


    Anita Taylor practices archery at Chosei Zen dojo in Madison, Wisconsin. Photo courtesy of Anita Taylor/Chosei Zen

    In 1972 Tanouye and Omori established Chozen-ji in Honolulu. It was the first temple of Rinzai Daihonzan Zen outside of Japan, and Kushner explained that its form of Zen training was aimed to help bring Zen to the West. Kushner and Greene as well as another teacher based in Hawaii, Wayne Kyoen Honda Roshi, are among Tanouye Roshi’s successors.

    Kushner founded the Madison dojo in 1982. Greene followed in 2005 and oversaw the building of a Zen training center on 108 rural acres in neighboring Spring Green. Two years ago the group bought a decommissioned church in downtown Madison and now the group is in the process of converting it into a third dojo. A virtual dojo was added during the pandemic.

    In the 1980s, Whitelaw was working at NASA, following her dream of becoming an astronaut, practicing aikido, a Japanese form of self-defense, and sitting zazen as part of her plan. While she failed to make the cut to go to space, she rose through the ranks of NASA, becoming a deputy manager working on the international space station.

    But after her marriage ended and a close friend died, Whitelaw made the decision to devote herself full time to Zen training. “It went from being something to make my life better to a deep inquiry about what the heck was my life about and how could I be of service through this instrument.”

    In 1996 she became a Zen priest and today she is founder and CEO of the Institute for Zen Leadership, a sister organization to Chosei Zen.

    The lineage’s physical demands often attract athletic spirits, such as the Madison dojo head priest, Scott Kou-un Kiel Roshi.

    “I was doing meditation independently and then training in martial arts at another dojo” and found Chosei Zen while searching for a place that combined the two, he said. “A lot of aikido is more aikijutsu. They’re teaching you the techniques, but they’re not teaching you how this relates to being a genuine human being.”


    Abbot of Chosei Zen Gordon Hakuun Greene Roshi, left, and Abbot Emeritus Kenneth Setsuzan Kushner Roshi. Photo courtesy of Anita Taylor/Chosei Zen

    What keeps many students engaged, however, are this tradition’s other challenges, such as the steep learning curve of the Japanese bamboo flute, or shakuhachi. Sustaining a single note can take months to master. “It wasn’t until recently I was able to play the high register more easily,” said student Dave Stahlberg. “It’s the idea of keeping at it, even after fail, fail, fail, fail, breakthrough, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, breakthrough. I enjoy that. I don’t know why.”

    Kate Watters first heard shakuhachi during a three-day online intensive. “It was like this guide, bringing me through this difficult thing with such beauty,” she said. “And so here I am. It’s very frustrating, but I remember that sound and think maybe, just maybe, one day.”

    While technique is important and frustration a given, Rinzai Zen is meant to prompt a deeper query of the self. “Who are you?” asked Honda, who is still head shakuhachi instructor at the sister dojo in Hawaii. “One of the ways in Zen is to cultivate doubt. The greater the doubt, the better. And that doubt has to do with, ‘Who am I?’”

    After Kristi Crymes left the Chosei Zen retreat three years ago, she said, “people responded to me differently and I was responding to my environment differently.” Normally shy, she said the training has made her more outgoing and present in her work.

    More importantly, it has transformed her work as a physician — rearranging the relationship between thought and action. “The only way to practice medicine responsibly and meaningfully is through this lens,” she said. “It keeps me being who I want to be.”
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

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