What do/don't you consider as being "Shaolin" ?

[passing_through]

Gene,

In my experience, Chan is not limited by doctrines or methods – people can approach it as a religion, a science or even a philosophy, whichever "door" they perceive and with which they identify.

Chan is about getting to a deeper level of experience of reality (for ourselves, and ultimately for others, in the manner and tradition of the Bodhisattva path of Buddhism). With these "goals" any vehicle or method can lead to a deeper sense of reality (tea ceremony, swordsmanship practice, tea cultivation, Bonsai cultivation, seated/standing/moving meditation, washing dishes, cleaning, etc. are all examples). With these different methods, different concepts are employed to help take the practitioner "to the far shore". Chan is not the concepts – and can be experienced without the concepts – so the overall experience of the process depends on the culture and needs of the student (the karmic roots). The method of communication comes down to the tradition but even that can change at times, too. If someone does not understand the intent and language of Chan, I think you’re statement, "you should be very careful when you mix 'science' and 'chan.'," could potentially by misleading to them.

In the HFY lineage, we describe the relationship of methods and communication to Chan in the phrase Hau Chyun San Sau – you have to have oral instruction, direct from your teacher and then you must experience the teaching through your six gates (eyes, ears, nose, mouth, skin, mind). Once you have an experience of the teaching (and you’re qualified to speak), different concepts can be used to help someone else. I can’t teach everyone using the same example in all cases – I have to adapt my communication style for the person to which I am speaking (explanation about the HFY Formula aside – in that case context is the same for everyone that has a body so the concepts are the same, but the language used to "see" the formula can adapt to circumstance based on the person that is hearing the explanation). Talking about universal compassion to someone that’s never experienced love might not be the best bridge to try to build. Maybe understanding force and power (or violence?) would be better for the moment – with an eventual guiding towards compassion by analogy and/or through gradual cultivation.

Some HFY articles feature a lot of scientific and military imagery – the HFY system uses a lot of Buddhist imagery and the analogies in the articles to science or military references made are valid. However, much of the more modern imagery has been derided in the past with arguments such that the Chinese people from the timeframe of the Ming/Qing transition couldn’t possibly think in the manner suggested by the scientific and military imagery used in the articles. While finding this argument both racist and ethnocentric, I also find it empty. The more I study the actual level of knowledge and sophistication of Chinese culture, especially during the Ming/Qing transition, the more I see connections in scientific, militaristic, philosophic, and religious models of reality. You do raise a good point about language usage. The last few articles have been reviewed by different people for clarity of message prior to being completed – a practice that will hopefully alleviate some of the miscommunications or misunderstandings of the past.

Going back to the original thrust of this thread, what is Shaolin – for me it comes to the cultivation of the mind/heart and nourishing the Buddha Nature in addition to technical training. There should be a focus in the system on three aspects: Chan, Health (both for self-cultivation and medicine) and Self-Defense (both as Chan cultivation and to prohibit the use of violence). Similar to Kung Lek’s assertion, I feel the body mechanics are less important that the combined focus on the above. If your intent is focused on the right goal, your life will eventually reach it. The heart of Chan is compassion for others – Shaolin is a faat, a method to reach that state. And I can’t remember where I read it – this thread or another – but sets/forms as sutras, this is something I can certainly identify with personally. The HFY system makes a distinction between Kuen Faat Dai Ji – a martial arts and Dharma disciple and Kuen Seut Dai Ji – a martial arts disciple. Kuen Faat means to use the kuen (and by extension, the learning of fighting) to experience the faat (method/reality – Dharma in a Buddhist context). Kuen Seut means to use the kuen to develop skill (I think this might be analogous to Mantis108’s usage of kung fu and wushu that I read in another thread with kung fu being in a similar vein to Kuen Faat and wushu in a similar vein as Kuen Seut.)

Sincerely,
Jeremy R.

Oh, and as a side note, Hitler’s usage of the swastika is discussed here and here. It’s not quite as simple as "when you mix 'science' and 'chan.' That concoction often results in nazism."

In brief,

"Nazi Germany's use of it has an interesting history. The initial association that the symbol seems to have had was that of extreme nationalism, but not necessarily associated with the Nazi Party. It was first used in this context about 1870 CE by the Austrian Pan-German followers of Schoenerer.

Wilhelm Schwaner displayed a swasticka on the title page of his "völkisch" periodical "Der Volkserzeiher" in 1897 CE as a symbol of the paper's "völkisch" sentiments, and this may be the first printed usage of it in this context.– from the first link above
…

Therefore, when Hitler chose the swasticka as the symbol of the NSDAP, he was quite probably conciously choosing an already familiar symbol that already had the tenets of National Socialist ideology attached to it in the minds of the German public. This act of adopting an already familiar badge is just one more point of evidence that Hitler was a canny and cunning man, and willing to steal and pervert whatever would advance his program.

The badge of the NSDAP was designed by Dr. Friedrich Krohn, a dentist who had belonged to several "völkish" groups, including the "Germanen Ordnung" (membership in which, incidentally, precluded -any- advancement in the NSDAP). As mentioned above, the symbol was originally drawn right-handed, and Adolph Hitler insisted on its being reversed. Many occultists shook their heads at this, thinking (rightly) that it presaged a bad end for Hilter's Germany."– from the second link above