What do/don't you consider as being "Shaolin" ?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by mersil
[B]i dont understand this ( authentic ) is "tan tui" not "tan tui"
is "Ti Chi" not "Ti Chi" is are animal forms not from shaolin?

I'm not going to open this can of worms. Do a search for Shaolin Do and you'll get the arguments from both sides on the forum.

[mersil]

Heres what i have come up with. looks to be Totally legit and a really huge and diverse Shao-lin Martial Arts System. Nice.

http://home.comcast.net/~mersil/Real...rtial_Arts.htm


For those who cannot read Chineese. i cant either ( hehe) these "two" Monuments are dedicated to Grandmaster Sin Kwang The' as the Grandmaster of Shaolin

Old Training facility in Chen Village
http://www.shaolincenter.com/ChinaFotos/Chen3_mr.jpg

Shaolin Temple
http://www.shaolincenter.com/ChinaFotos/Shaolin8_gz.jpg

Meetings with the Shaolin abbot
http://www.shaolincenter.com/ChinaFotos/GMSin8_gz.jpg

this may not be all you need, but i beleive it will be plenty evidence of linage for me. ( Most systems in the USA cant even get close to this )

so if another Shaolin-Do school comes to my town. you better believe that i will be there. i have found " Nothing" to make me believe that there is any wrong doings within the Shaolin-Do martial Arts Community. or their Linage. ( just maybe some jealousey or hard feelings in a few places )

thanks for your Inputs..its allowed me to come up with the answers i was looking for.

P.s. there are a lot of usefull links from within this forum. and from the main web site. thanks for that too

[Just a Guy]

Those monuments were a fundraiser for the "temples" in China. Some Tae Kwon Do organization has some too.

When a person searches for something, he always find what he is looking for.

[David Jamieson]

anyone can buy a stone at shaolin. they are not "honours" that are placed there for you. you need to make a "donation" to get one. but anyone can get one.

To use them as proof is indeed proof of something heh heh.

cheers

[MasterKiller]

Mersil, please contact your fellow Shaolin-Do brother Judge Pen via PM before you get yourself in too deep.

[Judge Pen]

Greetings Mersil,

Welcome to the forum. I am a second degree black sash under Senior Master Garry Mullins. I have fought the good fight for SD on this forum for a while now. I believe the SD is legit and it is kung fu. I believe that it has roots in the temple and the material has an authentic lineage. I believe that our forms/katas have evolved into a system that does not always resemble practitioners that have focused on a single system for a vararity of reasons. I know where you are coming from, but you are not going to convince anyone here.

Let me say that our lineage beyond Indonesia is somewhat nebulous; however, as Gene said, all kung fu schools have skeleton's in their closet. Because GM Sin and GGM Ie adopted Japanese trappings, people here will question whether our art is Japanese, Chinese, or kempo misc. You are not going to convince them otherwise. Because all of our material has been filtered through GM Sin, and to some degree, his brother Hiang, it has taken on a flavor independent of most of the CMA practiced by the members here. It doesn't make it less authentic, but it does make it different.

Have faith in your style and speak objectively here and you will be fine. You will be attacked by some trolls that just love to get things started, but that will die down and you can learn a lot from some of the posters on this forum. Gene, MK, and Kung Lek included. If you want to go through the logical argument that is SD on KFO, then I'll support you when I can, but it's a bit redundant to those who post regularly.

PM me so I can learn more about you and your SD training.

[norther practitioner]

Mersil, welcome.

Someone said this here a long time ago...

Don't prove it to us, prove it to yourself...

meaning, don't worry about us, worry about yourself, if you are getting what you want out of your training, then great.

[mersil]

My Last post on this Subject:


the only point i would have argued in public, is the fact that the Katas are of Shaolin origin. As far as the style actually being "Kung-Fu" i am not to sure of that words foriegn translation. and how as it applies to the system. also i think in Grandmaster Sin The' book. Holliday "quotes" that this isnt properly called Kung-Fu .

a Mandarin expression for any and ALL martial arts endeavor that is performed in a skillfull and dedicated mannor is actually called " Wu kung"

Kung- Fu translates into an effort applied to martials arts, as a sport , or for theatrical presentation, or for promotion of health. so that point is of no matter to me. I know that it is Shaolin-Do ( Shaolin-way ) Martials Arts. and that is good enough for me.

Peace out. Have fun , and cya

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by mersil
the only point i would have argued in public, is the fact that the Katas are of Shaolin origin.

Technically, so are Karate Katas. It all hinges on how far from the tree the apple fell.

Kung- Fu translates into an effort applied to martials arts, as a sport , or for theatrical presentation, or for promotion of health. so that point is of no matter to me.

Kung Fu means "skill attained thru effort," and applies to cooking, gardening, auto-mechanics, fighting, and a million other things.

[mortal]

The katas do not have one iota of shaolin in them.

Not even in the bazarro world!

[mersil]

ok i said that was the last Post :

Now i see how this magazine Forum Works: Most everyone that post here regularly is nothing more than a self centered Master of all Martial arts. with knowlege of every style there is. with that being said. i am not going to be coming here anymore . and also i wont be recomending any of my friends to come here either. Unless they just want to argue about someone's style being better than someone elses. thats what i mostly see in all the threads on this forum. everyone putting down someone elses art.
Man i have read some really Nasty post here. and they had no reason to say what they said about certain people.not just Shaolin-do . You people talk Bad about anyone you feel dont fit your criteria.

i was going to close on that last post: but when i seen this Moron ( Mortal ) coming in here saying that it has no shaolin at all: well that just goes to show that some people will say anything, just to get the last word in. just look at when he says he registered onto the forums . LOL 1969 . see , there is more bogus crap. hes a fony himself . trying to be someone hes not.

what do you think : Sin The' and his brother just made all the forms up from thin air. NO dumm ass they had to come from somewhere. sure they may have adjusted some of them to fit modern round eye people. But to say that they do ot come from Shaolin is complete crap.

have you even seen any of the advanced forms done from one of the skillful masters. Probably Not. you probably just seen a couple of short videos on some web page.

apparantly you havnt seen the list from a couple post back. of the partial list of material Sin The' has. and the origin from which they came from. and could you really proved that they didnt come from where he says the do ?

Sin The' is having a Dragon Pa Kua seminar on march 20. go there and then you can come back with some actual knowlege of what you are talking about. otherwise STFU. get areal life, and get a real Shaolin art.



i have no real desire to get into any long term arguments with the type of people here. so therefore thats the official last post.

watch: someone else is gonna smart off now .
just to get in their last word. that only proves my point.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by mersil
just look at when he says he registered onto the forums . LOL 1969 . see , there is more bogus crap. hes a fony himself . trying to be someone hes not.

That 1969 date is applied to all people who were registered here when the forum was moved to a different server a couple of years ago. It has nothing to do with him trying to hide behind a screen.

Sin The' is having a Dragon Pa Kua seminar on march 20. go there and then you can come back with some actual knowlege of what you are talking about. otherwise STFU. get areal life, and get a real Shaolin art.

Since when is Bagua a Shaolin art?

[mersil]

there is harldy any proof of any style coming from anywhere.

Kung-fu. The generic name for hundreds of individual Chinese fighting arts, soft and hard, internal "Nei-chia" and external "Wai-chia". Many believe that all forms of Kung-fu descended from the exercise techniques taught by Bodhidharma, an Indian monk who traveled to Shaolin Temple in 526 AD. However, ancient Chinese records show that various forms of Kung-fu existed long before this time. Kung-fu includes grappling, striking, nerve-attacks, and training with many types of traditional weapons. Internal Kung-fu systems include Pa-kua-chang, Hsing-yi-chuan, and Tai-chi-chuan. Practitioners of these disciplines attempt to harness internal power known as chi. External Kung-fu systems include Choy-li-fut, Hung-gar, Sil-lum, and Wing-chun. Practitioners of external Chinese systems use kicks and punches, rather than chi, to get their point across. Some of the better_known styles of Kung-fu are Shaolin, H-choy-li-fut, monkey, eagle claw, crane, drunken fist, long fist, south fist, five elders, lame, mantis, Pa-chi -huan and Wing Chun. Some styles, especially those that originated in Southern China, emphasize hand techniques, while others, particularly those from Northern China, stress foot techniques. Some Kung-fu are as follows

The Shao-Lin styles encompass both Northern and Southern styles, and
therefore are the basis of the following outline.

I Shaolin Wushu styles
A. External Styles (Hard, Physical)
1. Northern
a. Northern Shaolin
b. Chang Chuan (Long Fist)
c. Praying Mantis
d. Eagle Claw
e. Monkey
f. Drunken, et al

2. Southern
a. Southern Shaolin
b. Wing Chun
c. Five Animal System (Dragon, Snake, Tiger, Leopard, Crane)
d. Tiger and Crane Systems, et al

B. Internal Styles (Soft, Mental/Spiritual)
1. Tai Chi Chuan
2. Others (Pa Kua, Xingyi, et al)


and besides , how do you know what art was taught in what temple anyways. were any of you people there ?

but then again, do you even believe that there was a southern temple, because there is no proof of one ever even existing.


so its goes to my last point made. this Forum is full of people that just want to think they know everything. and argue about anything.

Gees what a way to live. must be so sad around your house.

bye and have a good life:

[norther practitioner]

with knowlege of every style there is.

there are people here who are masters, or high level students, or judges, or, well the list goes on, and they call it like they see it. I've been to a few tournies now, while that doesn't make me an expert on something, I've watched my share of internationally recognized martial artists do there thing with what they do. I can usually see something, and narrow it down into a range of different systems. So when I see someone doing a form on the internet and it looks a lot different than what everyone else is doing, I'll call it like I see it.

As far as not coming back, you should stick around, you might learn a thing or two.

Bagua is a taoist art, it may have been done by someone at some Shaolin temple at some time, but it isn't usually concidered a "shaolin art." Same with Taiji, which, along with taekwondo, you can learn at a temple recognized school.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by mersil
[B]there is harldy any proof of any style coming from anywhere.

That's simply not true. Many styles are well documented.

and besides , how do you know what art was taught in what temple anyways. were any of you people there ?

No one knows everything for sure. But like I said, many styles are well documented. For instance, do a web search on Bagua, and then come back here and tell me how it is related to the Fukien temple. You're pretty good at cut-and-paste, so it shouldn't take long.

but then again, do you even believe that there was a southern temple, because there is no proof of one ever even existing.

Believing in the Southern Temple, and believing in what certain individuals claim happened at the Southern Temple are not one in the same, especially when most credible accounts place it's destruction in the 1600's.